Volvo engines (For Crazyhorse) - Page 9

Dirk Diggler · 09 March 2003, 11:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Fuller

(or your tube has fallen off and someone has left a load of holes behind it to ensure quick flooding)LOL

Oi, leave Scorpion out of this argument!!!!

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
I'm probably going to regret asking this, but why do you need a 4" fuel inlet?

My geuss would be commercial filling stations (large nozzles, high flow) to avoid "blow back", am I right CH?

Dirk Diggler · 09 March 2003, 11:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Fuller

Your being very presumptious, the truth is, very few boats start as any more than a drawing on a fag packet by a person who has a feel for the job!
With respect, you do have a bit of an obsession with forms, paperwork and rules, in the real world, these are often created AFTER the boat just to satisfy the rules and regs!

Take Revenger as an example, designed in the early eighties as a Twin v6 outboard powered sportsboat/4 litre raceboat by Shead I believe, it had very poor sales until the deck was altered to a cruiser design. It was in this form powered by Twin v8 petrol engines that it had huge amounts of success as a Cruiser Class raceboat, although as a pleasure boat it still had poor sales.

In the early/mid 90's, the hull was made into a rib, ranging in size from 23-29', powered by single & twin v6's, v8 petrols and various diesels. I believe somewhere along the line Lorne Campbell was called in to alter the spray rails.

So to summarise, you take a ski boat, make it into a cruiser, then turn it into a rib, and when you have done all that, you write the paperwork for CE certification. Not the correct way of doing things according to Crazyhorse, but it seems to have worked!

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 11:38

OI, get off MY bandwagon Diggler!

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 12:26

The bottom line hear in my humble oppinion is will the company who makes the boat and it has to be assumed they know what they are doing ,

Will they warrant the boat when its done with your own ideas factured in,I suspect not.

You may be lucky and get it right and make improvements,which will mean the manufacturers will be thinking your a genious,My guess is out of the 10 people who move there engines around and try and make improvements to another persons boat design they end up with a odball,and they become the only collector of the boat, in the main.
You have to give rib designers and boat builderes credit for what they do,and they know there hulls and designs,and what works and doesnt.

You can get away with a diesel in the transome on some boats as they were designd with the beam and can take the weight,but to try and move a engine forward cos you think it will stop a sea from comming over the bow? is not recommended unless a person who knows your boat and design and weight tables can demonstrate it works better than a inboard at the stern which if you get it wrong will not be too bad,as most desingd ribs have the extra boyancie anyway.

Thats my take on this project so far,unless it transpires that Humber will warrant the project and the boat passes all MCA tests and RCD cat B then I am sticking to my oppinion.

Good luck anyway,Its not my boat and I have explained what I would do in the same situation.In the hope it stops somebody doing the same withought proffesional advice or the support of the designer/builder.

Be happy

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 12:27

yes DD/Jf commercial filling

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyhorse
but to try and move a engine forward cos you think it will stop a sea from comming over the bow? is not recommended

CH, Are you familiar with the term, "trip & stuff", I suspect not, why don't you ask JW if he is!

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 12:44

Hay JF/JW maybe you both start re designing ribs Eh

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 12:51

What do you mean, "start"?

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 12:58

On the paper trail Question,I would rather take my chance on a boat with certification and testing and under written by guarantee if poss, than a boat that was designd well and was changed and therfore is gambling then on who is more experienced the builder designer or the person who makes the changes.

I know what I would rather be in on when it blows up.

Unless it is demonstrated that JW is a navl architect or has access to one or the Builders underight the changes and there fore believe its beneficial for the boat ,then I know which boat I would prefer to be out on in bad weather and when the time commes to sell which I would have the best chance of getting the best price for.

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 13:08

JF OOH we have a boat designer in the house.

I am awfully sorry I should realised?

I do appologise for being cheeky and arguing the point on this specilist subject ,so I will sit back and maybe now learn something about boat design from a succsesful boat designer.

Have you got any fags left in your fag packet as I am off to get some also.

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 13:11

Got any mid engined success stories you designd Mr Boat/rib designer?

Tee Hee

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 14:12

Sorry CH, I'm not stupid enough to smoke!

P.S. If moving motors fwd 1.5 metres on jack shafts makes it mid engined you must have a bloody small boat! Have you considered in your capacity as a pub expert, that is, from what I can gather, no ACTUAL experience, why volvo and mercruiser both make such a shaft!...just for fun I expect.
Have you also ever seen a staggered instalation and wondered what the reason(s) for that might be, or bow tanks, so come on puzzled of blackpool give a bit of your vast knowelege/experience

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 14:29

I can get you some empty fag packets at the right price of you need any for the next boat design

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 14:35

why don't we wait to see what your virtual boat runs like, maybe you'll be sending them out to canada!LOL

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 14:58

Im no boat desiner JF but I know when to ask for expert advice.Or run with what works and is established.

To make great changes to a boats designd stability and move half ton engines around is big changes.

New ideas are great but the sea doesnt change and your experiance from what I can gather is great as far as I am concerned for Power boat racing and speed and all that stuff,

But I am a cruising man and speed development isnt of interest to me.sea keeping and longevity and better design is,the days of fag packet boat design is over in my eyes,some got it right others didnt.

This paticular hull was designed for a reason and it is a good boat with the engine where it is I believe,any changes need very carful thought and advice,from a proffesional thats is what I am saying.

I am actuly a in reality a buisness development consultant in my real life that has nothing to do with boats or design,but I am not scared to look a bit further in depth and ask questions about peoples theorys,and make my own mind up.

Dont be unhappy about it as I hope it works out ok,and if it does then great.

I have made my choices and believe they are the right ones,only time will tell,you may be right ,and if so I will be saying so,but I dont think so at this stage of the game.

There is nothing that I have heard on this thread that would make me change anything about my boat or engine or drive so far.

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 15:07

On the points about Bow tanks,it will help keep the nose down when they have fuel in them.A little different to moveing ones engine forward by maybe 1.5 mtrs and tanks, IMHO and as far as engine manufacturers making it possible to move your engine forward ,I would think this development is for newly designed hulls that can take advantage of that benefit in design and not existing well proven outboard/diesel 8.5 mtr hulls,that work as they are and have a good reputation as offshore sea boats as is with the diesel in the back.Also you will loose a lot of room in the boat and its a gamble that I would not take,untill I had got a second oppinion from the builders/proffesionalls.

IMHO

Jonny Fuller · 09 March 2003, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by crazyhorse
On the points about Bow tanks,it will help keep the nose down when they have fuel in them. IMHO

Baffoon, bow ballast tanks are filled with water from a scoop and dumped through a valve overboard, as and when required!

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 15:29

You can use either, I also had a bow fuel tank and used it to ballance my boat and I used different tanks at different times by swapping fuel from tank to tank it was an old design.

We shall agree to differ on this Engine moveing jobee as its not my boat and I think it is a big job,only for proffesionals.

crazyhorse · 09 March 2003, 15:32

Maybee in your capacity as a boat designer you can point me in the direction of a boat /rib you have designed that is succesfull with this configuration? That is 8.5 mtrs long?

One of the reasons for my concern is this.We floated a egsample 30 ft rib with a KAD 300 in her,and found that she did not have the freeboard to comply with the Iso regs 12217 for offshore power boat regs,as she did not have the minimum freeboard requirment.

This lead me to ask the question from JW was his boat CE marked of which I got no responce but I would assume if the boat is CE marked then it may be invalidated bye changes. Im not saying that she will not pass but what I am saying is there is a lot to it and when in daught get expert advice.

A friend of mine also was buying a similar type of boat and has gone for a 9.5 so as to ensure she conforms to this new stability criteria.
Now then it will help in the freeboard stakes bye moveing the engine forward but it coud have seriouse downsides from a handleing point of view and all that stuff.