What outboard should I buy

[kubcat]

Just purchased this Zodiac Pro 470. It has just been retubed but the old 70hp is not working.



The maximum rated horsepower is 70hp.

I want to buy a new engine and am debating on whether I should get a 50hp, 60hp or 70hp.

I will probably go with the old 2 stroke technology because it works .

My local dealer sells Tohatsu and I have purchased 2 brand new Tohatsus in the past from them. The service has been fantastic. I am not changing dealer in a hurry.

I don't care about resale, I will keep it a long time and not use it much. Fuel consumption is not particularly important and I will never use it enough for the fuel savings to make up the extra cost of the more fuel efficient motors.

I spend most of my time flat out or close to it.

Honda makes the Tohatsu 4 strokes in this up range at least and they are priced about the same as Honda.

I have included the TLDI and 4 strokes just to compare.

A 50 hp old school 2 stroke Tohatsu weighs 87kg and burns 5.5 gallons per hour at full throttle. Price $5190

A 50 hp TLDI Tohatsu weighs 95kg and burns 4.3 gallons per hour at full throttle. Price $6500

A 50 hp 4 stroke Tohatsu weighs 97kg and burns 4.2 gallons per hour at full throttle. Price $7390

A 60 hp old school Tohatsu weighs 115kg and burns 6.3 gallons per hour at full throttle. Price ?

A 60 hp 4 stroke Tohatsu weighs 110kg and burns 5 gallons per hour at full throttle. Price ?

A 70 hp old school 2 stroke Tohatsu weighs 115kg and burns 7.4 gallons per hour at full throttle. Price $6400

Both the TLDI and 4 stroke don't have a 70hp, only a 75hp.

I must say I am surprised at how light the 4 strokes are.

Unfortunately Tohatsu doesn't include specifications on how noisy they are. I have no issue with my 90hp old school Tohatsu 2 stroke with noise.

[Last Tango]

If you're going to keep it a long time, think about the availability of parts. How much longer will we be able to get carburettor parts for? Legislation on inland water re emissions ?........Just a couple of things worth consideration.

[spartacus]

If money was no option then Yamaha's F70 should definitely be on your wish list. 117kg, uber-quiet 4-stroke technology. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for.

The Tohatsu mid-range 2-strokes are tried and tested. They're pretty agricultural, but having said that they're easy to maintain, parts are of the highest quality, etc. The M60/70C are effectively the same engines, same block, etc. With the right propeller, 17" pitch would work on a Zodiac 470, then they're hard to beat.

That's my tuppence worth.

[kubcat]

Last Tango, fair point.

Spartacus, the F70 is $9600. Yes it is pricey, about 50% more than the 2 stroke 70hp Tohatsu. I can see why, it probably has more than 50% more parts. I am sure it will be quieter, more economical and easier starting. If it was my daily driver I would do it. For maybe 10 trips a year, no.

I guess my real question is 50hp or 70hp. Zodiac on their website has a Pro 500 listed with similar specs (4.7m). They have max allowed hp 70, max preferred 50hp.

We have 1 vote for 60/70 and no votes for 50 yet.

[jonp]

Ive just bought another boat with my second Yam 70 4 stroke, love these engines. What do you mean by 2 strokes work, a friend of mine has now clocked up 5000 hrs on his (yam 70 4 stroke) service boat to a house boat company and not had an issue. The house boats have hondas which normally get auctioned off at around 6-7000hrs.

If you enjoy the smell of 2 strokes great but you have to ask why most commercial operators use 4 strokes (reliability, economy). I also own a boat with the lean-burn Suzuki 90 and cant fault it. My kids used to get sick from the smell of a 2 stroke which is why I swapped to 4 on a formula 15 (now sold).

Service costs on the last 70 4 stroke were almost spot on the $200 down here at Merimbula mowers and outboards, Ive heard prices tend to be much higher up in Sydney.

A 70 Yam 2 stroke is always going to be easier to re-sell if you decide to get rid of the outfit in my opinion but if I planned keeping the boat for years a 4 stroke would be my only choice.

Jon

[Rover310]

Originally Posted by kubcat

Just purchased this Zodiac Pro 470. It has just been retubed but the old 70hp is not working.

Looks like that Evinrude 70 is an early 1990's model... I've got a '91 Evinrude 6 hp which has the same style hood decals as yours. So any idea what the issue may be with the motor?

[kubcat]

Rover310, no ideas what's wrong with the current motor, haven't picked up the boat yet. The previous owner said it was a 70's and it is $&@;5&.

I do want a new motor so not keen on fixing the old one.

[kubcat]

jonp, I am starting to see a pattern here. Those that have 4 strokes usually tend to be pretty happy with them.

Good looking boat you have.

Food for thought.

[ShinyShoe]

Why do u spend most time @ WOT? Would think that affects decision another 50 vs 70?

[spartacus]

If the hull allows, then run it it to capacity. Ever considered that you don't have to use all your horses? You can call upon them when you actually need them, rather than scream the nuts of an under-powered engine. Most Zodiac 470s I've seen use a Yammie 60hp, but only because the next engine up was the F80 (at the time).

[kubcat]

ShinyShoe, I run at WOT because I am impatient, most of my runs I this boat would be up river to a restaurant we frequent. It's about 15 nautical miles away.

Sparticus, max hp is normally my rule but thought someone might chime in and say that this hull might be sensitive to engine weight.

Now we have solved the hp issue, it will be 70. Thank you.

I am even slightly tempted to pay the 50% premium for an F70 just to see what all the fuss is about.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Rover310

Looks like that Evinrude 70 is an early 1990's model... I've got a '91 Evinrude 6 hp which has the same style hood decals as yours. So any idea what the issue may be with the motor?

That era had electronic oil blending with a fuel pump that looks looks like a part out of Apollo 13 with the same reliability. Unfortunately when they fail, and they do, the engine keeps running, but without any oil.....never a good thing.
There was also issues with the middle cylinder not cooling properly and wrecking the bore. However he's not mentioned what's up with it so it could be something trivial

[jonp]

Originally Posted by kubcat

ShinyShoe, I run at WOT because I am impatient, most of my runs I this boat would be up river to a restaurant we frequent. It's about 15 nautical miles away.

Sparticus, max hp is normally my rule but thought someone might chime in and say that this hull might be sensitive to engine weight.

Now we have solved the hp issue, it will be 70. Thank you.

I am even slightly tempted to pay the 50% premium for an F70 just to see what all the fuss is about.

Mate of mine used his Gemeni for the same thing (Darling harbour runs for lunch) no worries about paying or finding parking He ended up putting a 175 etec on a 550.

The 70F is a great engine, sometimes a little hard to here it running but no smell and great reliability. Starlo (tv fishing celeb) got one of the first in the country a couple of years ago and still raves about it.

Jon

[bmb779]

Tohatsu four stroke engines are quiet and smooth,sometimes too the point where at idle you think they have stopped and try to restart them.

[Bigtalljv]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

That era had electronic oil blending with a fuel pump that looks looks like a part out of Apollo 13 with the same reliability. Unfortunately when they fail, and they do, the engine keeps running, but without any oil.....never a good thing.

There was also issues with the middle cylinder not cooling properly and wrecking the bore. However he's not mentioned what's up with it so it could be something trivial

I had a buddy with a Yamaha that did that, lost the oil pump but kept running (for a bit)

[kubcat]

175 on 5.5m? I tried that, 175hp on my 5.6m Dockitjet. Didn't go well for me.

I hope to pick up the rib in a week and a half and will make decision when back home. Looks like the 70hp 2 stroke Tohatsu at the moment but a super deal on a Yamaha F70 might sway me.

Also need to buy a jockey console. The only one I can find available in Sydney is a Mercury for $1199. It all ads up quick.

[9D280]

Re. the spares & service costs -

1) do you have a good engine breakers nearby? - Only arguably really useful when big stuff breaks (e.g Transom clamp) - I can still get running spares for my 1972 vintage Johnson so do a bit of research on your local supplier(s) .....

2) servicing. Old school 2- strokes don't need a lot. Granted a TDLCi (or whatever the acronym is!) might need a computer to talk to the engine management, but for the older carburetted engines - (and I include the 4- strokes in this) - Could you do it yourself?


3) I have an 82Kg 60Hp on the back of my 5m. it keeps up with similar, heavier boats with 90s on the transom, and I can feel the handling change as the fuel tanks empty. The weight makes a much more significant difference in a small rib than it might in a 10M with 300 Hp on the back.


Just some food for thought.

[jonp]

kubcat the 175 was on one of those Gemini boats which were sold off cheap at the end of the olympics in Sydney (used by security).

As for parts, my way of thinking is buy new where you get 5 years warranty (extended to 7 years with some dealers). At the end of warranty I sell and replace with new normally only costing me $2000 or less out of pocket. Never have to worry about the cost of mechanical repairs agin.

Yamaha have 1% finance and a complete fitting gauges etc for a very reasonable price Brisbane Yamaha - Yamaha Outboards Sales Service - Quintrex - Baysport

As for the jockey console, that would be the first thing I would remove!! A simple console you can stand behind or have a storage box seat you can sit on if you chose. I tend to head well offshore (40-50km) so standing gives me a better view picking my way back in rough conditions. Being able to stand with slightly bent knees helps my back too.

Jon

[Rover310]

Originally Posted by kubcat

Rover310, no ideas what's wrong with the current motor, haven't picked up the boat yet. The previous owner said it was a 70's and it is $&@;5&.

I do want a new motor so not keen on fixing the old one.

Not that it matters, as you're planning on getting a new outboard anyway, but that Evinrude 70 HP pictured in your opening post is most definitely from the early 1990's, not a 70's vintage as the seller has told you. The hood decals indicate it's a 1991, but that can be confirmed by looking at the Model Number shown on the transom clamp.

You'd be surprised how often people put things like outboard motors up for sale, thinking that it's junk and not repairable, and it turns out to be a relatively minor issue. And in the case of this Evinrude, if the seller doesn't even know the correct model year of this outboard, there's a fair chance he also doesn't know what's really wrong with it (beyond "it doesn't work").

Just saying...

[kubcat]

Well a decision has been made.

My local dealer traded in a 2011 60hp 4 stroke Mercury which I think is the similar to the Yamaha F60.

I did want a brand new motor but the price is considerably less than half of a brand new one and it looks brand new under the cowl so it is being fitted today. I can give it back if I don't like it and get a full credit towards a new motor, so not much to lose.

I would have preferred a 70 but it is too good a deal to pass up.

Thank you for all your input.

Will update when I get the boat but any suggestions on prop size. The motor currently has a 15 inch Mirage stainless prop.