Would you pay for this?

CJL · 16 July 2006, 15:17

My 135 Optimax went in the shop for a faul finding session the other day.

Basically the engine would turn over but never fire. Almost like it was getting fuel.

I've checked the tank for kinks in the hose and air locks and it works fine. The fuel in the water seperator looks fine as does the stuff in the hoses. No loose connectors or the like.

So a bit stuck I took the boat to my local Mariner dealer and they spent 3 hours looking over the problem which they eventually diagnosed as a loose cable. I asked them to give it a good check and run on the muffs for a fair old time. He said he did this and he ran it up on the muffs when I went to collect it. It started first time and ran for less than a min.

I've just tried it this afternoon and less than 100 yards from the end of the slipway the same problem happened again. I've now changed the pugs which did cure it for a 40 sec run, before spluttering and dying.

I don't think it has been plugged into the diagnostic software either!

So
a) does anyone have any ideas on the fault
b) would you pay for an subsequent fault finding on the same fault after failing to find it and then not testing it despite the customers requests.

Chris

Andy Moore · 16 July 2006, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJL

I asked them to give it a good check and run on the muffs for a fair old time. He said he did this and he ran it up on the muffs when I went to collect it.

What are 'muffs'?

TQBoater · 16 July 2006, 15:32

Flush Muffs for running it of a hose. They fit over the water intake so you can run the engine out of the water

Also used for flushing out the seawater

CJL · 16 July 2006, 15:45

Nobody got any ideas then?

fast fred · 16 July 2006, 16:15

i'm for B, bring it to someone who wants to fix it,could be did not show on the muffs, muffs aren't for revin up, some outboards will over heat on muffs
with out any revin.

what them plugs look like, the new ones when you pull them back out?
were thay washed with gas?

CJL · 16 July 2006, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

i'm for B, bring it to someone who wants to fix it,could be did not show on the muffs, muffs aren't for revin up, some outboards will over heat on muffs
with out any revin.

what them plugs look like, the new ones when you pull them back out?
were thay washed with gas?

The old plugs were a mixed bag really. Most had a bit of soot and two of them had a bit of oil on them.

I've checked the fuel from tank to water seperator, to bulb, to diaphram pump, to electric pump and its all OK. I can't follow the fuel any further as the lines go into the fuel filter and the big steel vessel, (vapour thingy!)

I've not checked the diaphram pump itself though.

Chris

fast fred · 17 July 2006, 11:30

dose sound like the pump, should be a fuel rail with a blead valve on it,
you want to test rail psi thare, seen them pump fail, but not many.

Jizm · 17 July 2006, 12:01

No I wouldnt pay for it. Had the same prob a couple of years ago. Bloke said he would fix it in 2 days, two weeks later he hadn't! Picked boat up and he tried to charge me for 14 days storage, the reply involved some 4 leter words!

Turned out ot be a dodgy wire which I fixed myself.
Yours does sound like fuel tho'. Run it in a tank if you can, much better for diagnosis than muffs. Where abouts is your boat based?

CJL · 19 July 2006, 13:39

Right just to clarify;

The engine went in for repairs, it was returned to me fixed as a loose electrical connection had been found. (In addition a worn hose was fettled and I'm waiting on a replacement part now)

On Sunday it broke down with the same fault I had previously experienced initially. It went back into the Mariner Dealer on Tuesday. The mechanic wasn't particularly interested in hearing what I had done to fault find and said he would fix it.

I rang Tuesday lunchtime to see how much progress had been made and they hadn't started it yet. This morning they are supposed to have taken it for a test on the River but I've still not heard from them.

Would you pay for the additional work, refuse point blank or come to a compromise?

Regards

Chris

Hugh Jardon · 19 July 2006, 13:47

this is the age old problem of do you pay someone who knows what they are doing 1 hours work to fix something or someone else who does not have all the right equipment and not really knowing what they are doing 4 hours to trial and error a fix.

i would be looking for a compromise for sure, and that would be close to not paying for very much time over and above the work they previously did to supposedly fix the problem.

check with lee fairweather who did seariders for him with a very similar fault, give them the symptoms over the phone and they may be able to give an indication of possible causes etc

never hurts to get a few views on this type of thing

Searider · 19 July 2006, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

check with lee fairweather who did seariders for him with a very similar fault, give them the symptoms over the phone and they may be able to give an indication of possible causes etc

never hurts to get a few views on this type of thing

Chris - be very careful advising that it is possible to diagnose an optimax fault over the phone - it almost always isn't in my experience.

Regarding running up on the muffs - this didn't highlight my problem. The engine needed to be run under load. This can be done either running free or on the trailer in gear half way down the slip.

CJL · 19 July 2006, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Chris - be very careful advising that it is possible to diagnose an optimax fault over the phone - it almost always isn't in my experience.

Regarding running up on the muffs - this didn't highlight my problem. The engine needed to be run under load. This can be done either running free or on the trailer in gear half way down the slip.

Thanks for the info.

I have spoken to Mark at Fairweather Marine and I've got some more things to suggest to my "not quite as good dealer!"

If it isn't fixed at my place I'll take it to Mark, I certainly will be doing from now on anyway!

Chris

Hugh Jardon · 19 July 2006, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Chris - be very careful advising that it is possible to diagnose an optimax fault over the phone - it almost always isn't in my experience.

Regarding running up on the muffs - this didn't highlight my problem. The engine needed to be run under load. This can be done either running free or on the trailer in gear half way down the slip.

i think i said....."give them the symptoms over the phone and they may be able to give an indication of possible causes etc"

i was speaking with CJL this morning and said it might be worth giving fairweather a call and explaining the symptoms hi engine has and they may be able to come up with some possible causes that could be suggested to the local dealer trying to repair it, who incidentially does not have the diagnostic equipment for this particular engine apparently.

does that help?

Jizm · 19 July 2006, 16:09

Fairweathers

Recommended!

Lostboy · 19 July 2006, 16:37

Absolutely. Lee and Mark are both top guys and get a big tick in the box from most of my outboard mates.

Just up the road (literally!) as well which is always handy

Searider · 19 July 2006, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

i think i said....."give them the symptoms over the phone and they may be able to give an indication of possible causes etc"

i was speaking with CJL this morning and said it might be worth giving fairweather a call and explaining the symptoms hi engine has and they may be able to come up with some possible causes that could be suggested to the local dealer trying to repair it, who incidentially does not have the diagnostic equipment for this particular engine apparently.

does that help?

Fair enough - however he's wasting his time, and money, going to a dealer who does not have the diagnostics gear.

CJL · 20 July 2006, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Fair enough - however he's wasting his time, and money, going to a dealer who does not have the diagnostics gear.

Tell me about it. This dealer has failed to tell me that they don't have the diagnostic gear when I took it in. At the moment the mechanic dodges the question about what the diagnostic gear is telling him. I'm furious.

If they think I'm paying for all these hours labour they will think they have another thing comming.

Surely they should not have accepted my engine if they don't have the correct gear?

Nos4r2 · 20 July 2006, 10:33

Sadly it's not what people should accept these days more a case of 'can we get away with it?'

If they'd fixed it without the diagnostic gear you'd have been none the wiser...