Yamaha 350 - resonant torsional vibration

Xk59D · 07 October 2016, 16:30

You should have a look at the hull truth forum about those engines, they need flywheel replacements for life which may or may not bother you or if you can get something else?. Yamaha in USA pay for it but not sure about here. I think it is every 80 hours I read but do check it out.

Xk59D · 07 October 2016, 23:04

Yamaha tried and failed to fix it last I seen hence I mentioned it, all they do is replace the flywheels for life in USA, not sure about other parts of the world.

Defo worth checking out before delivery though from yamaha UK as to what the deal is.

USA folks got the below

Sugar Cane · 08 October 2016, 11:01

Xk59D, thank you.

This is alarming and not something the Yamaha dealer who i met at the Southmpton Boat Show last month mentioned. It's not something Ribeye have raised either and i believe Yamaha have been their engine of choice for some years.

I've sent your post to them for comment. I appreciate to you raising it.

Paul

Xk59D · 08 October 2016, 12:29

No problem, let us know what they say and all the best.

beamishken · 08 October 2016, 21:00

Don't the newer engines have a modified flywheel?
I thought the problem was mainly with commercial motors running at continuous rpm for extended periods.There is usually 2 specific rpm points in any engines rpm range which create harmonic vibration which can snap cranks or cause other problems, I'd imagine that is something to do with this flywheel problem
I doubt it would be a biggie for a UK user

Xk59D · 08 October 2016, 21:13

well the letter above has 2015 written on it so they are still swapping these out. i found that via google with someone who had 60 hours on theirs.

here is one in UK, lots of them in USA as you would expect.

http://www.rib.net/forum/f64/yamaha-...fts-56189.html

new flywheel doesn't cure from what i've read previously, just adds more time between failures (80 hours at 3500-4200rpm ish if memory serves) but i don't own one, just getting info while on THT as i seen the post above years ago and had a nosey at the issue.

be happy for OP if Yamaha UK will follow the USA at the very minimum.

beamishken · 08 October 2016, 23:30

Last time I looked at a calendar it was 2016 and 12 months is a long time In engine manufacturing terms I'd be surprised if they haven't been busy looking at a long term solution I'd imagine they'd be in for a class action lawsuit in the states if they didn't keep previous buyers happy untill they found a proper fix
Obviously worth the op asking the question though
In any range of engines there will be a certain component that is the weak link and people will find the odd failure or two and then every engine is going to fail the same (think etec saddle bracket)

Xk59D · 08 October 2016, 23:54

2016, really??

this dates back to 2008 and the letter above is 2015 so been happening a good while, may have fixed it recently of course as you say though.

Not sure if they would be eligible for class action since they are covering it under warranty even if it blows, no expert there I'm afraid.

Just poor the person on our own forum got the cold shoulder but in the USA they would have been fine.

beamishken · 09 October 2016, 00:31

The one UK failure doesn't make them all lemons & reading the download of the engine running data the UK engine spent most of its life at tick over 480 hours out of 599 total run .Harmonic vibration occurs at 2 sweet spots one high rpm one low which is possibly the reason for the UK fail
It possibly took yamaha a few years to realise there was a problem and start to look at a solution & maybe they deem it cheaper to keep replacing flywheels in engines already in service than recall them and replace all the cranks.However I doubt that if they have identified a fault that they would continue supplying the engine with a known fault knowing they could be replacing flywheels every year for 10 -15 years life expectancy
I may be wrong but if they haven't modified the crank & or flywheel in later engines I'd be amazed

Xk59D · 09 October 2016, 01:07

There was a service bulletin in 2009 for it so they have known for a while, was suprised to find the 2015 letter when I looked as I assumed would have been fixed by then too.

Let's see what the OP gets from yamaha uk as really that is all that matters.

Last Tango · 09 October 2016, 08:44

The consequences of this type of failure could be lethal !
What does it say about a manufacturer that allows engines, with that type of defect, to continue to be used and sold.

60hrs ? Nothing, absolutely nothing, should fail in an engine with those hours.

Sugar Cane · 27 October 2016, 18:06

Hello folks

Apologies for gap in replying to the thread on potential issues with the Yamaha 350F. My excuse is that i have been out on the water!!

Both Yamaha UK and the dealer Ribyeye have looked into the reported issue. Ribeye themselves had not experienced the reported problem but instantly worked with Yamaha UK to source me a response.

Xk59D was correct. The Yamaha Flywheel on the F350 will need replacing. beamishken was also correct. Yamaha report the issue can be experienced but is not expected to occur for the UK leisure user.

Yamaha have explained there is nothing to be alarmed about. The flywheel does indeed need to replacedvery occasionally as part of the annual service, at the cost of Yamaha (parts and labour), every 80 hours of the engine at a certain RPM (which is very uncommon for leisure use). The flywheel maintenance procedure is covered by a specific warranty that lasts the lifetime of the unit, meaning that providing the unit is maintained according to the procedures set out in the manual and that there is no cost to the customer. If it is required, the engine will alert the user on the dashboard (Fault 87). Page 96 of the manual explains this is some detail.

I am grateful to Xk59D for calling it out as I was able to find the assurance i needed from both Ribeye and Yamaha.

However, it's more reassuaring to know I am the owner of an awesome outfit that now having run it for 3 weeks, is simply stunning. I really could not be happier.

Give me a shout if you are on the Solent anytime soon!!

Happy Boating!

Xk59D · 27 October 2016, 18:09

I may have missed this, but are they going to cover you for life?

How they can say this won't happen in the UK is beyond me, do we have special water that makes metal stronger?

Sugar Cane · 27 October 2016, 18:22

Hello Xk59D

The flywheel maintenance procedure is covered by a specific warranty that lasts the lifetime of the unit.

It could help with Brexit if it were true that our mineral were somehow in posession of super powers, i fear however Yamaha were drawing a distinction betwen engine usage types rather than water.

Xk59D · 27 October 2016, 19:08

Do you know if yamaha UK have made this public?

Is it every 80 hours when 3500 revs and above right enough?

Sugar Cane · 27 October 2016, 19:13

Hello Xk59D

Following the response I checked the user manual and found it there. I wouldn't know if it is something they issued a public communication for.

I found them very helpful, I'm sure they would respond if you drop them a line.

Good luck.

Xk59D · 27 October 2016, 19:18

Was only asking as the last guy on here in 2012 who had the problem was told by yam UK to sod off.

It won't impact myself as I will never buy one so as long as you are happy that is all that matters.....oh and have it in writing

beamishken · 27 October 2016, 23:26

The problem seems to relate to prolonged running at a certain rpm which will be one or both of the harmonic vibration sweet spots
The flywheel must be some kind of dual mass damper affair & when the damper is doing its job for long periods then it will deteriorate. Many engines can suffer from harmonic vibration when run at continuous rpm for long periods
Some dampers can actually get so hot they discolour due to harmonics
It seems yamaha have found a potential problem and addressed it by offering free replacement if the engine ever reaches the set hours at that rpm
In the US owners may hit the required hours as they tend to do long hours running at continuous speeds however in the UK for a leisure user it's probably unlikely to reach those hours for a very long time
Many engines in the marketplace have common failure points eg bmw 5 series timing chains snapping or swirl flaps dropping onto pistons both destroying engines
I'm sure outboards from other makers will have common failure points too
This problem seems to have been identified & measures put in place to prevent the owner getting a nasty surprise or big bill
Enjoy the boat and forget about the flywheel!
Personally I don't think there is much in the market place to better yamaha so if I was in the marker for that size of engine I'd happily buy one

Xk59D · 28 October 2016, 00:47

it is quite a broad rev range and the average user in UK would hit it i would think every 2-3 years.

to quote- "80 hours in the 3200-4250 range and flywheel will require replacement"

the official yamaha/EPA useful life rating for this motor is 10 years or 350 hours, most outboards are the same BTW so no surprise there, i wonder if they will use that as their "lifetime" benchmark.

anyways, maybe a future 350 owner can get some info from the thread and good yam uk seems to be onboard with this issue now.

now to the OP....you have been out enjoying the boat with no new pics...come on now

Sugar Cane · 28 October 2016, 17:04

Hi Xk59D, yes I am sorry. I did say i would. I will upload a few now.

Thank you beamisken, very helpful and consistent with what i heard.

Thank you both. Purchaser's can never have too much information. As you say Xk59D, the next buyer now has plently to take. And for all engine buyers, it's a good source of information.