Bad wire?

[ncp]

I had been having intermittent problems with my VHF and GPS turning off at random times. I couldn't recreate the problem on the trailer so I figured I would cut back the wire a bit and put new connections on (figured possible bad ground).

I did one end already with #8 rings to attach to the 12v panel. Then I cut back 8 inches into the other end to attach the 5/16" ring and saw this.

Corrosion? A burn?

Front side


Back side

[willk]

Rotten to the core!

It's a curse - go for the tinned stuff this time.

[ncp]

Originally Posted by willk

rotten to the core!

It's a curse - go for the tinned stuff this time.

Thanks!! It was existing so I was going to try to use it.


I got some Mil-Spec stuff to use when I do a full rewire in the next month or two and didn't want to break into it yet because I didn't know where I was going to make my wiring runs. This stuff isn't cheap!!! (the 10 gauge wasn't at least...the duplex 16 gauge mil spec was only $1.25/ft)

[willk]

OK - I see your edit now. That looks like very typical damage caused by saltwater to copper wire. I had exactly the same trouble you have with your electronics and found the same thing. It's a PITA as you get full volts at your instruments but that crap won't carry the amps you need. In my case, the VHF worked fine until I tried to transmit, it then fell back to "Lo" power.

Strip it all out and replace with tinned copper wire - it's a bit more expensive but will resist corrosion for much longer.

The random times will have been when you were making demands on the circuit, like running your sounder or transmitting - something like that, maybe even when trimming the motor...

[ncp]

Originally Posted by willk

OK - I see your edit now. That looks like very typical damage caused by saltwater to copper wire. I had exactly the same trouble you have with your electronics and found the same thing. It's a PITA as you get full volts at your instruments but that crap won't carry the amps you need. In my case, the VHF worked fine until I tried to transmit, it then fell back to "Lo" power.

Strip it all out and replace with tinned copper wire - it's a bit more expensive but will resist corrosion for much longer.

The random times will have been when you were making demands on the circuit, like running your sounder or transmitting - something like that, maybe even when trimming the motor...

Thanks. Yes, I like to take pictures on my phone, start a thread with them, and then edit the thread on the computer by adding all of the text.

I guess that I'll have to break in the stash of the good stuff! Stripping it back with all of that shielding will be fun...

[Erin]

As willk says, use tinned. That twin core you've shown doesn't look tinned to me. Unless you can seal the ends waterproof you'll only regret it. (and willk won't forget 'he told you so' when you post pictures of green/black cable again in a few years)

[Dirk Diggler]

ANCOR MARINE Primary Wire by the Foot at West Marine

[ncp]

Originally Posted by Erin

As willk says, use tinned. That twin core you've shown doesn't look tinned to me. Unless you can seal the ends waterproof you'll only regret it. (and willk won't forget 'he told you so' when you post pictures of green/black cable again in a few years)

So, I bought the mil spec stuff thinking it would match the rest of the wiring (some 16 gu and some 10 gu). Then, I read the fine print...

So, don't even use this stuff? Or just use it and seal it up with 2 layers of adhesive heat shrink like I already do for every connection I make?

[Erin]

Hmmm, the spec says tinned, but that photo doesn't look it to me. It also looks quite rigid i.e. not many strands.

[ncp]

Originally Posted by Erin

Hmmm, the spec says tinned, but that photo doesn't look it to me. It also looks quite rigid i.e. not many strands.

Spec says tinned for the 16 gu that I bought for some LED light runs but it says 12 gu and larger is not tinned. So my 10 gu is not tinned!

I had planned on using this 10 gu in two places, ~3 ft per run, to/from from my 24v/12v converter (so 3 ft. carrying the 24v in and 3ft from the box out to my 12v switch panel).

What the heck is our military thinking ordering non-tinned wire?????

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by ncp

What the heck is our military thinking ordering non-tinned wire?????

Tinned wire is only a plus in corrosive environments (salt air/water, or actual corrosive areas, where you'd probably need some other insulation anyway.)

Lots of other applications still need wiring. They're buying stuff for everything from houses and schools to satellites.

jky

[ncp]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Tinned wire is only a plus in corrosive environments (salt air/water, or actual corrosive areas, where you'd probably need some other insulation anyway.)

Lots of other applications still need wiring. They're buying stuff for everything from houses and schools to satellites.

jky

Yes, but would they use non-tinned in a boat even though they might be bulk ordering for elsewhere?


I decided to see how this stuff is to work with. Horrible!

Just a few layers to get through


Heat shrink terminals, covered in adhesive heat shrink tubing, and at the base, a little black 5200 under a larger piece of 1/2" adhesive lined heat shrink.


Thinking this might hold!

[Chris]

If you use glue line heat shrink to seal joints in wiring and avoid any exposed wiring where water is present then copper is fine. For example I recently got a set of Lenco tabs fitted and all the wiring they supply is not tinned. However with Deutsche connectors at the rear where the cables join it will be fine.

Also most of the electronics you get have copper looms (not tinned).

If salt water gets in then tinned or copper will corrode.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by ncp

Yes, but would they use non-tinned in a boat even though they might be bulk ordering for elsewhere?

You're talking about the military. Who knows what they might do?

Heat shrink terminals, covered in adhesive heat shrink tubing, and at the base, a little black 5200 under a larger piece of 1/2" adhesive lined heat shrink.

Looks like a good job.

As an FYI, if you shave off a bit of a hot-glue stick and stuff it in with the wire, you end up with adhesive lined heat shrink tubing, even if it wasn't adhesive lined. Cheaper than using 5200.

jky

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Chris

For example I recently got a set of Lenco tabs fitted and all the wiring they supply is not tinned. However with Deutsche connectors at the rear where the cables join it will be fine.

Also most of the electronics you get have copper looms (not tinned).

If salt water gets in then tinned or copper will corrode.

Interestingly, I chose Lectrotabs instead of Lenco and they came with tinned wire. I agree that there is still alot of standard copper wire used in the marine environment, not least in engine looms. However, I would much prefer to use tinned on anything I fit so that it is one less thing to worry about in the future. I prefer a fit-and-forget approach rather than wondering when or if it might fail.

[ncp]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

As an FYI, if you shave off a bit of a hot-glue stick and stuff it in with the wire, you end up with adhesive lined heat shrink tubing, even if it wasn't adhesive lined. Cheaper than using 5200.

jky

Ya, the heat shrink already had adhesive in it but I just wanted to fill the void when I put the large piece of shrink at the base of the two wires and I had a resealable 5200 sitting around.

Good to know for next time though!

[captnjack]

A couple of drops of the "liquid electrical tape" inside the end of iffy connectors works great. I use this when I have 2 wires in one connector or similar situations (had to do this on my trailer wiring recently)

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by ncp

Front side
Attachment 78195

You can clean this cable up with a white vinegar and salt solution...
Only recommended if you really can't replace it though...

[jyasaki]

White vinegar and salt?

While it may clean up the corrosion, I'd be a little leery of a) introducing an acid to what is already a reactive metal, and b) adding more of what caused the corrosion in the first place. Going to be impossible to rinse the stuff out of the strands, in any case.

jky

[willk]

The blackened cable that I've seen has been completely rotten - even the strength had gone and it was brittle. The problem isn't surface tarnishing (that wouldn't effect the conductivity) - it's the complete degradation of the copper in the wire. Poly will know what the reaction is - is it forming a salt or something?