Bargain priced VHF ?????

[Manos]

Originally posted by crazyhorse
......as Im told that the mca have the list of approved vhf sets.

Is there a possibility to obtain this list and publish it in the Forum??
Not that I do not think that other USA made VHFs don't work in Europe (think about US vessels/crafts coming into Europe. They all have USA made marine equipmet onboard and not EU made and all work PERRFECTLY!!) but it will be usefull to know.

[crazyhorse]

I have asked the MCA for the imfo will let you know when it arrives.I also have asked the MCA on the implications of CE catergories for Ribs and the implications for us,when that comes in wrighting I will update the appropriate thread .

Its a lark.

Crazyhorse

[Manos]

FIRST CLASS MATE will be waiting to see what will transpire and I'm sure that it will be VERY INTERESTING for some LOLOL

[matiboy]

electrical experts know what I should look for when purchasing this illusive arial for my VHF which fell off the back of dell boys three wheeler, which probably wont work anyway judging by the above threads !!

What type, assuming it will be mounted on my stainless arch ?

What's the frequency stuff mean they always quote, etc ?

Why cant I go to a radio ham shop explain what I want, which is basicly a wiggly metal thing and a tv arial lead and buy the bits to put one together ? Is this pos ?

[Manos]

Without being an expert on electronics I think that if you take the VHF or write its type, frequency and other data is got on it they will give an aerial (but better take the unit with you). However, with all VFHs there is also a min length of wire required between the VHF and the aerial (I think). So do you have the manual??
Just wait a few mins to see what someone else says just in case I'm wrong. Electronics is not my thing but always keen to assit LOLOL

[crazyhorse]

Mateboy

I truley hope your set gives you constant pleasure.A vhf ariel for marine use that is the right length and designed for the jobee will cost about £25/£30 quid.Any chandler will supply you.

The main thing is please make sure you use plenty of sealent or if possible mount it in a place that will not get to wet.Take a handheld with you and a emergencie ariel if possible.

Sorry to be a bit of a kill joy.

But its one of the most important pieces of kit in my humble opinion, and I have lost all coms before at a critical time 3am off a lee shore, and if it wasnt for my back up hand held could of been in the mire.

All the best Crazyhorse

[crazyhorse]

The standard marine vhf frequencie for channel 0 is 156.00 the standard marine vhf ariel is designed for around this band width.

Please dont try and get a coathanger and use this as well.?

[matiboy]

the fibreglass arials can be purchased for about 25 + quid as you say, but for mounting on an A frame I have been advised to purchase the flexible wire ones which seem double the price

Any thoughts as to which type is preferable ?

The ability to unscrew the arial for clearance seems to me to be the deciding factor

PS will a plastic coat hanger work !!! Couldnt find a wire one in the cupboard

Cheers

[Daniel]

Guys... my 10p's worth...

Electricaly a marine VHF aeriel is a marine VHF aeriel - designed for and tuned @ factory for the appropiate frequency(s) which will work internationaly. A ham radio supplier / CB shop etc. etc. will be able to get / make / supply one but best to get one from a chandlers, complete with the correct connector - either already fitted or kit of parts for home assembly.

Any aeriel will be tuned / designed for 'centre band' and everything either side of this is a comprimise, Marine VHF is approx. 155 > 159 MHz, so the aeriel will be designed with about 157MHz as it's optimum frequency, but the ineffeciency 2MHz either side is very small.

The length of coax is not critical - the whole idea of coax is that electricaly it is 'invisable' to the radio, which is why you can't use TV coax to extend a VHF etc. etc.

The connector on fixed VHF's is (always in my experience, but could be others) a PL 259, this can be adapted to a BNC as usually found on a handheld VHF if required - i always carry an adapter 'coz using the handheld on the big aeriel could be useful some day!

Er... thats about all on the technical side - hope it helps rather than confuses!

Further to someones comment about fibreglass type whip aeriels i have two of these on the A-Frame (circa £25) for over a year with no problems, plenty of rough-sea use. I've seen the smaller flexiable (called a RIB raider i think) - about £50-£60, but it would want to be right on top of the A-frame since it is considerably shorter than the conventional white marine VHF aerials you see.

Regards

Daniel

UPDATED: Thought i should add that operating a radio transmitter without an aeriel is very likely to damage it (blow-up RF output amplifier).

Having re-read what i wrote, the frequencies i have mentioned (155-159) could be fractionaly inaccurate, i think marine VHF receive on the duplex channels is higher (165MHz ish) but the examples serve to illustarte my point about frequency comprimise!

[jools]

Dosn't the "Licence" just apply to the vessel, allowing a radio to be used on-board. I don't think the RA require any details about your radio.

However it is illegal to "Take into service" a radio that does not meet the specs.

I have some info on DSC radios at

http://www.ribpanther.co.uk/faq.html

The info below was found on the RA site at

www.radio.gov.uk


Maritime radio equipment falls under either the EU Radio Equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment (R&TTE) Directive 99/5/EC, the UK Radio Interface Requirements or the Merchant Shipping (Marine Equipment) Regulations 1999.

In order to avoid causing harmful interference to other authorised users, it is important that all radio equipment operates in accordance with the relevant technical parameters. In addition, in the case of equipment used in a maritime environment, radio equipment needs to be able to operate satisfactorily under the conditions likely to be encountered on board a ship at sea and to be compatible with other radio systems used on board the vessel.

Under the Radio Equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment Regulations 2000, which implements the R&TTE Directive in the UK, it is a legal requirement that all radio equipment (with certain specific exceptions) meets certain essential requirements. It is the responsibility of any person who places radio equipment on the market or takes it into service to ensure that the requirements of the R&TTE Directive are met. It must be marked with the CE marking which means that a written declaration of conformity by the manufacturer has been drawn up for it, together with information for the user on the intended use of the equipment (e.g. Maritime radio).

The R&TTE Directive replaced the type approval regime and came into force on 8 April 2000; prior to this time it was still a legal requirement for Maritime radio equipment to be type approved under section 84 of the Telecommunications Act 1984. The R&TTE Directive also has a one-year transition period, during which equipment already covered by a type approval certificate may continue to be placed on the market and taken into service. No new type approvals have been issued since 7 April 2000. After 7 April 2001 only equipment that complies with the R&TTE Directive may be placed on the market, though equipment already type approved may continue to be taken into service. Moreover, such type approved equipment already taken into service would satisfy the terms of the licence.

In addition, it is the licensee's responsibility to ensure that all Maritime radio equipment to be covered by a licence granted by the Agency meets the relevant UK Radio Interface Requirement. UK Radio Interface Requirements provide a high level description of spectrum use (frequency range, channel spacing, output power, technology to be used where appropriate), licensing regime, etc. Details of the relevant UK Radio Interface Requirements can be obtained from the Radiocommunications Agency, telephone 020 7211 0211.

One of the exceptions mentioned above is that of Maritime radio equipment within the scope of the Directive 96/98/EC (the 'Marine Equipment Directive'). This is implemented by the Merchant Shipping (Marine Equipment) Regulations 1999. This equipment is not within the scope of the R&TTE Directive but must meet the requirements of the Marine Equipment Directive 96/98/EC. This equipment will bear the "ship's wheel" marking rather than the CE marking.

[Scubakid]

I use to use a USA set and the only bug is to remember to set it to international as they power up on USA frequency If you are having problems I will be happy to give you a hand give me a PM or mail me at john@ribdromedary.co.uk

John

[crazyhorse]

Well I have to thank you all for putting the time in on this subject,as we all know a ifi vhf is a danger rather than a asset.I contacted the rca and they told me the liscence does require some radio details and that they should cross refrence these facts,in practice maybe they arnt that thurough though?I explained that sureley if they granted a liscence for a radio that wasnt type approved then they would be responsible and they felt it was the owners responsibility,to make sure the radio would comply?And that if it was a contributri reason for a subsequent insurance claim? then the law would prevail.


Withought prejudice .It is my opinion that you may get away with a none type approved set on your boat,The problem is that weathere we realise it or not as far as the sea goes and the regulations go and vhf sets then a reliable type approved set is of paramount importance.

Mateboy you have had some stick over this and if others make different decisions with regardes vhf then it has been worth everybodys imput,whatever there views.

Thanks for bringing up a important subject

Good ribbing Crazyhorse

Ps I will Still will find out weather it is on a type approval list or not

[jools]

Its fairly clear that its the users responsibility from my earlier post? - I'm sure the RA will only complain if it starts to bugger up other radio equipment nearby - which could cause problems with a mayday rescue etc etc.

Jools

Under the Radio Equipment and Telecommunications Terminal Equipment Regulations 2000, which implements the R&TTE Directive in the UK, it is a legal requirement that all radio equipment (with certain specific exceptions) meets certain essential requirements. It is the responsibility of any person who places radio equipment on the market or takes it into service to ensure that the requirements of the R&TTE Directive are met. It must be marked with the CE marking which means that a written declaration of conformity by the manufacturer has been drawn up for it, together with information for the user on the intended use of the equipment (e.g. Maritime radio).

[Manos]

...think that the matter of having a VHF onboard is so complicated. We operate ships and it seems that the rules are less stricked for vessels that they are for small craft.
I will personally obey and stick to the rules that apply for vessels rather than all this.
All this stuff looks very starnge to me.

[matiboy]

yikes, boating is complicated

picked up from the boat show a free motorboating magazine which was a special giving advice on which boat to buy and how to start in boating

having read it I am surprised anybody would buy a boat, first buy yourself a boat for a small fortune, then try and understand all the thousands of bits of safety gear you need to buy for another 10 grand

then off to night school to learn how to use your new toy

no wonder there are a lot of jetskiers and windsurfers around

back to the VHF issue,

earlier quote by jools

"Its fairly clear that its the users responsibility from my earlier post? - I'm sure the RA will only complain if it starts to bugger up other radio equipment nearby - which could cause problems with a mayday rescue etc etc."


what happens when an american yaght with my vhf on board sails across the pond to the UK, are they by using their vhf
buggering up other equiptment and breaking some law ?

there must be lots of american boats in the uk using american equiptment at any one time

Hmmm confused

[Manos]

I agree with you 100+100%
Have also made the same points as jools previously.
I think that all this rules regs are just made for the naive I say to buy products that are highly overpriced from this mafia gang called small boat chandlers.
In short a VHF works as a VHF in the same frequencies as all VHFs work everywhere else in the world. FULL STOP!!! There is no difference!!!
I would like to ask if any one has been stopped EVER by an official anywhere in the World (not only in the UK) and has been asked has whether his VHF got a CE marked or if the VHF has been purchased in the UK or in Uganda?? I would be interested to know. I haven't been stopped any where. NEVER!!!
Also when one applies for a VHF licence for his boat does the licence ask whether you bought the VHF from USA, UK, GR, SAfrica, Australia or Singapore or if the VHF is CE marked?? Don't think so
So keep it simple guys and stop lying the pockets of the shopkeepers with your hard eraned money!!

[Daniel]

Manos,

No-one is ever going to ask if it is CE marked since this is not a legal requirment. In the UK, type-approval is required. The rest of the world i don't know about. American products will be type aproved.

CE marking only applies when buying - resellers can not sell non CE marked stuff. Of course CE marking does guarantee type-approval though!

Does that make anything clearer?

Daniel

[Manos]

I know all what you say and the point I'm trying to make is
what is all this fuss about??
People can use any VHF they like, it can be made anywhere in the World, approved by any authority in the World and as long as is made by a reputable manufacturer and is a VHF (i.e. working within the VHF frequencies) it does not make any difference does it? No official will ask for type approval would they??
So if one can buy a cheaper VHF from the US, SAfrica etc (which they can) then buy it from there. Is not a problem if it does not have a CE mark and is not type approved no one will ask about that EVER.

[crazyhorse]

The bottom line is you buy a piece of equipmet thats not type approved for use in Europe and your knakered, if it couses a problem.I.e if it doesnt work when you need it or couses something further to happen,you may have insurance implications and everybody else on you back,depending what happens?.

It is your responsibility to check?I am of the opinion that the RCA cant get off the hook that easily and if they have given you a liscence for a None type approved radio then they are also open to serious critisism at best.

My personal advice .Dont do a VHF on the cheap,what may seem a bargain could end up the most expensive piece of equipment you ever owned.

Crazyhorse

[Manos]

OK I see what you are saying. But can you tell me the difference of a (say) Icom VHF whichg is made for the US without a CE mark and an Icom VHF with a CE mark.
I have both same type and there is NO difference between them and the same has also been advised by an electronics expert. We actually took both sets appart and all the bits have the same codes etc.
So what is all this fuss about??
I say GO CHEAP!!! if you can without risking it LOLOL
Bet you won't agree with me