Bravo BST 12 HP Batt - battery charger

[IanH]

Just received a mains battery charger for my Bravo BST 12 HP pump with integrated battery from an online Rib shop (who I will not name as they have not responded to my query yet). The Bravo pump as an integrated sealed lead acid 12v 7Ah battery.

I was expecting a 13.8v/0.8A charger (as per the spec on the Bravo pump/manual) with euro pin adaptor but received what appears to be a generic 12v / 1A PSU with UK 3 pin.

On checking to see if the PSU was giving 13.8v I found that with no load it was actually 18.2v on the pin.

Concerned, I contacted the shop and am waiting a reply from someone technical. I also contacted the manufacturers to get their opinion. Still waiting for that.

Thought I would ask for an opinion on here as I need to charge the pumps battery in time for weekend and cannot really wait for responses that I was hoping to get this afternoon.

Also, how do I know when the battery is charged and does the mains adaptor or pump itself contain circuitry to trickle charge?

If all it needs is a standard 12v PSU and not the official Bravo 13.8v unit I was expecting from the product description, I may get one on Amazon that has LED's to signify charge state and allows trickle, as long as it won't interfere with any circuitry that may be built into the pump.

I don't want to end up damaging the Bravo pump or shortening the life of the battery.

[jyasaki]

Most unregulated supplies (and some regulated supplies) don't give any meaningful reading on an open circuit, with regards to what voltage they charge at. Takes some amount of load to get the voltage range down to the normal operating voltage.

I would guess expect 13.5 to 14.4 or so voltage range for a 12V SLA. Present charge will affect the charger output when connected as well. I doubt the 200mA difference would be of any consequence.

jky

[Ribshop]

Originally Posted by IanH

Just received a mains battery charger for my Bravo BST 12 HP pump with integrated battery from an online Rib shop (who I will not name as they have not responded to my query yet). The Bravo pump as an integrated sealed lead acid 12v 7Ah battery.

I was expecting a 13.8v/0.8A charger (as per the spec on the Bravo pump/manual) with euro pin adaptor but received what appears to be a generic 12v / 1A PSU with UK 3 pin.

On checking to see if the PSU was giving 13.8v I found that with no load it was actually 18.2v on the pin.

Concerned, I contacted the shop and am waiting a reply from someone technical. I also contacted the manufacturers to get their opinion. Still waiting for that.

Thought I would ask for an opinion on here as I need to charge the pumps battery in time for weekend and cannot really wait for responses that I was hoping to get this afternoon.

Also, how do I know when the battery is charged and does the mains adaptor or pump itself contain circuitry to trickle charge?

If all it needs is a standard 12v PSU and not the official Bravo 13.8v unit I was expecting from the product description, I may get one on Amazon that has LED's to signify charge state and allows trickle, as long as it won't interfere with any circuitry that may be built into the pump.

I don't want to end up damaging the Bravo pump or shortening the life of the battery.

Hi Ian,

Just to clarify to others, your call put in yesterday afternoon has been answered on my return to the office this morning. The chargers Bravo supply to go with the BST pump are not a Bravo branded product and come with a European two-pin plug. We have therefore sourced a three-pin equivalent that we supply to our clients. As JKY has said, when a load is applied to the charger, the voltage output will drop and as any car alternator or outboard will put out over 14v when running, the 13.8v suggested on the pump must have some tolerance. However, I would suggest if you are in any way unsure, please return the charger for a full refund.

Thanks, Kieron.

[IanH]

Thanks for getting back to me the morning and the offer to return. Unfortunately your colleague yesterday told me that you would call me yesterday afternoon hence my post here as I need to get this sorted today as i need the pump for tomorrow.

Unfortunately as its last of your stock, you couldn't confirm expected output on an identical unit so I'm still not 100% sure whether the unit is outputting the expected voltage or whether this individual unit is over voltage. I'll probably connect up and see at battery terminals what the voltage is under charge conditions and make my decision whether to return from that.

[IanH]

When on charge its down to about 12.4v so I'm happy with that. If it was over about 14.5v, I would have been more concerned but will check again towards end of its charge cycle.

Thanks

-Ian

[npm108]

I am waiting for a similar pump to arrive.......and had some questions as well that perhaps RibShop can answer or someone who has the same pump.

- Is there any charging circuitry built into the pump unit or is it simply a case of feeding it 12-14.75 volts via the socket?

From research, a Fast charge of a 6 cell 12V Pb battery can be up to 2.4 - 2.45V per cell (14.4V-14.7V) with a slower charge of 2.3 - 2.35V per cell (13.8V - 14.1V)

Ideally a Pb Lead Acod battery should be charged in at least 3 stages (Constant Charge or Bulk, Absorption and Float).

Charging at low voltages 12-12.5V can cause sulfation and given that the BST battery will be regularily charged/discharged/charged ideally you want to minimise sulfation etc.

Now the batteries that come with the Bravo pumps whilst being Lead Acid (Pb) also appear to be sealed Gel batteries in which case charging voltage should not exceed 14.1V. Smart chargers have a specific Gel Battery program and are preferred to maximise the longetivity of the battery over a standard power supply.

Your boat or car's alternator has no intelligence.

I intend to get one of these having used CTEK's larger charger installed on my other boat and have been very happy with them.

CTEK XS 0.8 Car Battery Charger - the smartest battery chargers in the world!

This is an excellent 6 stage charger that is IP65 rated and I reckon could also work to trickle charge the main boat battery even though it has a low output. Should work to keep it topped up.

[IanH]

@Kieron

I see you have changed the title, description and image of the charger to better reflect what was supplied. I think thats a really good idea and makes it clear that it is not a Bravo charger. Just my 2p but 'Bravo Mains Charger for BST Battery Range', supplied with european adaptor etc does kind of imply that I was getting a genuine Bravo charger from Italy.

@npm108

From my understanding, the pump unit itself is quite dumb with regard to charger circuit. It sounds like what is supplied from the 'charger' is directly applied to the battery rather than any special circuit being built in. I quite like the look of the CTEK unit you link to and now wish I had spent a bit more buying one of those, especially in light of the other points you mention in your post such as sulfation at low voltage (mine started charging at 12.4v) and max voltage at 14.1v (mine is up to 13.7v after about 3 hours and still not steady). Sounds like the extra will pay for itself in new battery replacement and more importantly, knowing that its good to go and not let you down part way through inflation.

[IanH]

Im at 14.2v within 4 hours. I think I'm going to switch it off return the unit based on the info given that charging Gel batteries should not exceed 14.1v.

There is probably nothing wrong with the unit and I'm probably being over cautious but whilst I'm within my distance selling 7 day time period, I think I would be happier having something that is purpose designed for charging sealed lead acid batteries.

[John Kennett]

It sounds to me like it's exactly the same as the charger that the manufacturer provides. I've got the original one with a euro 2-pin plug and there's certainly nothing smart about it!

It works OK, but a more sophisticated charger would probably look after the battery better.

[Ribshop]

Hi Ian,

As already said, Bravo do not produce their own UK charger for the BST, they simply supply a generic 110v pin charger which isn’t much use over here!

You drew my attention to the product on our website, where the photo was of the two pin charger so I have updated this along with simplifying the description so there can be no confusion.

We have sold dozens of this product without issue; however as with any product we are always more than happy to take returns if you are not satisfied, so please return it to Rib Shops Eastlands Boat Yard address - which I believe Stephanie has emailed to you - along with a copy of your web order number. Stephanie will process the refund as soon as we receive the item.

Kieron.

[Leapy]

[QUOTE=IanH;501810 I think I would be happier having something that is purpose designed for charging sealed lead acid batteries.[/QUOTE]

Is there such a thing for charging such 'small' Ah batteries. The various 'smart' devices I've looked at have a clause that says not be used for batteries below xAh. Can't remember what x is but it was a figure that suggested to me that these sorts of devices where meant for car batteries and the like.

[Erin]

None of the chargers supplied with these kinds of products are 'smart'. It is rare that they would do any damage as they don't put out much current, and I really wouldn't worry about it putting out 0.1v more than the quoted ideal for a sealed batt. A better charger would obviously give more longevity to the battery, but in most cases the battery will fail due to sitting idle for long periods and sulphating, not because of a slight overcharge.

[kubcat]

I have found that my battery hasn't even lasted a year and I have been giving it a charge monthly.

Purchased a new battery and a cnet charger last week and will see how we go.

[willk]

I wonder would it be "smarter" to run up a box or bag with a non-battery Bravo, a decent Battery and a small trickle charger (the cabinet type)? That way, you could leave it on charge when not in use and go for whatever battery suited you best?

[IanH]

Having lived with the unit a week, I think for some that would be a good option.

For me, it was about £40 difference between battery and non battery version. By the time you bought a battery and sorted out a box to store it in, its probably a fair price for the batt version, especially with the convenience of having it all in the one bag.

But if you have an existing non batt version, an external 7ah sealed lead acid battery or Nmh equiv would work well or bigger if you so desired. Whilst it would be potentially more flexible, allowing you to have a couple of batteries on the go at once, or use direct from a car battery, its only a 2 minute job to swap the battery on the batt version. And if you had a conditioning type charger rather than the standard one, you would always have a visual indication on the state of the battery to know it won't run out mid use as mine did first time I used it. Although you could stick a volt meter across the supplied cigarette lighter plug lead and test the battery in situ.

Just my 2p.

[IanH]

If anyone wants to do their own charger unit, the plug that fits the pump is a "Long DC Power Plug 2.5mm / 5.5mm". In other words, 5.5mm dia barrel with 2.5mm hole. Maplin code is HH63T. Not sure how easy it will be to solder though as internal pins are quite short.

[IanH]

Received my CTEK XS 0.8 charger today. Very pleased. It oozes quality in in its packaging.

Took less than 8 hours to fully charge and the LED display indicated progress and indicated a useable 80% charge probably after 3 hours or so. I took measurements at various points and voltage was in the two charging ranges at all points. Currently in standby mode and voltage sitting at 13.5v, right in the standby voltage range of the battery so I would feel happy keeping it on charge for extended periods of time, unlike a standard transformer that had significantly exceeded the batteries cycle voltage let alone the standby voltage.

The only issue I see is making up a suitable plug. The CTEK cables look too nice to cut for wiring into the 5.5mm plug. I temporarily rigged up the charger by clipping the battery terminals to the cigarette lighter plug. But not a good long term solution.

Hope this helps anyone looking for a unit providing visual indication of charge state and hopefully longer battery life.

Thanks to npm48 for pointing me in the direction of the CTEK unit.

[Nasher]

Mmmm.

Having brought my Bravo secondhand without a charger I use the one that came with a Jessops AA battery charger years ago.

It's been doing the job fine for a couple of years now.



Nasher.

[npm108]

Originally Posted by IanH

Received my CTEK XS 0.8 charger today. Very pleased. It oozes quality in in its packaging.

Took less than 8 hours to fully charge and the LED display indicated progress and indicated a useable 80% charge probably after 3 hours or so. I took measurements at various points and voltage was in the two charging ranges at all points. Currently in standby mode and voltage sitting at 13.5v, right in the standby voltage range of the battery so I would feel happy keeping it on charge for extended periods of time, unlike a standard transformer that had significantly exceeded the batteries cycle voltage let alone the standby voltage.

The only issue I see is making up a suitable plug. The CTEK cables look too nice to cut for wiring into the 5.5mm plug. I temporarily rigged up the charger by clipping the battery terminals to the cigarette lighter plug. But not a good long term solution.

Hope this helps anyone looking for a unit providing visual indication of charge state and hopefully longer battery life.

Thanks to npm48 for pointing me in the direction of the CTEK unit.

Hi Ian,

Glad to read you like your CTEK. On my dads boat we had used Mastervolt but they are expensive pieces of kit and needed to find something more cost effective when I bought my cruiser.

The XS should have a comfort connector, which would allow you to use this http://www.ctek.com/mt/en/chargers/C...20Cig%20Socket

Gives you a female cig socket on one end and the comfort connector to hook up with the charger on the other. It's not a cheap accessory though but does keep everything factory new so to speak rather than chopping wires.

Otherwise I guess you could buy a Cig socket from Maplin and put to eyelets on the other end, join with M6 eyelets that come with charger use two small bolts/nuts.

I was lucky enough to get a good price on a CTEK D250S 12V 20amp 5 Stage Charger that I combined with a CTEK Smartpass for full energy management. The D250S is a DC-DC charger which is quite unsual but gives you a fully optimised 5 step charging profile that runs off your alternator but then optimsies the charging output to multiple battery banks. It can also accept other input sources like solar panels.

After the first season I added an M200 AC-DC 8 step 15A charger which I used to keep my batteries fully maintained and charged in winter. Again the M200 is wired via the Smartpass.

Where did you buy your XS 0.8 from? I will most probably invest in one for the RIB as well, because it should be okay for maintenance charging of the RIB battery too.

[IanH]

Hi

Unfortunately that lighter socket won't work. The comfort plug is the wrong gender. It's designed for powering accessories via the cig lighter when the vehicle etc already has a comfort lead permanently attached to the battery. I'm sure many people may have been caught out by that as its not obvious - thankfully I spotted the little note on the ctek website.

I did however end up buying a comfort indicator lead, an extra £6 from amazon. I feel much better cutting the eyelets off of that than potentially invalidating the 5 year warranty on the accessories supplied with the main unit. Plus I can leave it plugged in and it will tell me state of the battery and whether it needs topping up.

I bought charger for £35 inc from advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk. No reason other than they did free next day delivery and I didn't have to go delving through copious web pages to find delivery charge as with some other sites.

For me, knowing the state of the battery and it always being good to go was well worth the extra of the ctek unit.

I would also like to thank The Rib Shop for their help and no quibble full refund.