Changes to Mayday call

[ashbypower]

Ok so your saying a diver showing signs of DCS is a pan pan ?? get real !!!

[SPR]

In UK we are told to tell people by the RNLI - a MOB is a Mayday . if you manage to get the person aboard it can always be downgraded.

The RNLI would rather have the best chance in recovering a live person and not a body.

They have been incidents that people have died after going over aboard being only 1 mile from RNLI station, any delay could cost life's.

The Advice if Sailing short handed is press the RED button, if you have time do voice follow up. Keep sight of MOB. A well done distress call is out in 30 secs.

It starts the gears in motion at Lifeboat station.

Crew Page - Boat Launch - Travel time to location. Where I sail this could be 20 minutes, 40 to 70 mins for helicopter to get on station.

An early Mayday could save a life, I usally have on my procedure card. How to operate the Radio etc.

Don't be scared in asking for assistance in UK, they rather know your in trouble sooner and in daylight! Makes tasking resources easier.


regards


S.

Not even mentioned the effect of cold shock on a MOB.

[m chappelow]

I was always lead to belive that a mayday was for a (Person) or vessle/aircraft in grave or imminant danger .

regarding call signs ,,since selling my fishing boat and packing in fishing after 30 years i now only use a hand held (Transporable licence ) with the SIB , where does it say what it my official call sign is .

[SPR]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

i now only use a hand held with the SIB , wheres say what it my official call sign is .

That will be your T Number, that your are issued with you transportable licence...

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by SPR

That will be your T Number, that your are issued with you transportable licence...

Thought so
think ill just keep using the boats name ,,, short distance i go out now at least any locals will know who it is and recognise the boat name than a load of numbers .

Like when you phone up someone and they then answer and start to reel off their telephone number , then you say is it Harry
,,yes ,,well f ing say so .
was ok when telephone numbers were 4 digits long but now they read like the Gettysburg address.

[Max...]

MOB = mayday is what I was taught at the (RNLI teacher) VHF course.

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by Max...

MOB = mayday is what I was taught at the (RNLI teacher) VHF course.

Seem to remember that they went to that about 15 years ago in the uk after a few m,o,b sailing incidents at the inquests it came out people were confused and unsure what type of call to make so they with made it official and regarded any MOb a mayday with the exception of been put in the water intentionally as in Diving ,,even then if they fail to surface or drift off thats a mayday.

[captnjack]

Originally Posted by ashbypower

Ok so your saying a diver showing signs of DCS is a pan pan ?? get real !!!

Depends. If they are in pain but their neuro exam is normal, and we are transporting back to shore ourselves, then sure I would Pan Pan for an ambulance at my landing point. If they are having explosive DCS on the deck and I need a helicopter extraction or they will die, I would ask for that via a Mayday as they are in grave danger.

Really if you are communicating clearly with whatever rescue agency you've contacted it doesn't matter much. As you should be stating the nature of the problem, how severe it is, and coordinating an appropriate response. If you aren't able to communicate clearly due to poor reception or unknown reception then use any means possible to raise assistance. I definitely disagree with trying to relay MMSI numbers if your communication is spotty or inconsistent, focus on describing general location and clearly communicating coordinates.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by ashbypower

Ok so your saying a diver showing signs of DCS is a pan pan ?? get real !!!

Pan-Pan Medico Shirley?
End of the day we're talking semantics (or should that be b0110cks, must be the bad weather) If the coastie or anyone else for that matter hears, Mayday, pan pan, mayday relay etc, they shut up & listen.

I was taught & understood that technically "mayday" was when the boat was about to disappear from under your feet, everything else was pan pan, but like I said, semantics

[ashbypower]

Hi PD, Pan Pan medico was taken off the Training about 8 or so years ago. We now teach Pan Pan and ask for medical assistance. However DCS once onboard O2 Administrator as carried out assesment (Symtoms etc) advise is Mayday (Grave and Imminent danger to, Vessel, Person or any other vehicle). If I were 20+ miles out I'd want a helo enroute not wait untill I was alongside.. Having been in the situation believe me you want the help soonest!!!

[Pikey Dave]

Over the years I've been bent more times than I can remember, strangely it's the shallow air dives that get me, never the deep Trimix stuff. I've learned to self diagnose & medicate as many "adventurous" divers do I certainly wouldn't bother calling a skin bend in or even a joint niggle. It's bad when you go blind, throw up & fall over (unless it's a weekend evening), that's the time to send for the cavalry. The rest of the time, aspirin, fluids & an hour on the O2 usually does the trick.

[ashbypower]

Indeed hence my diagnosis comment..

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by captnjack

You are getting this backwards. The most important element to summon help by any means possible as the ship is on fire or sinking. (Otherwise it should have been a Pan-pan)

The MMSI is gravy. Nice to add if you can in ideal circumstances but in many cases not likely to add much to the efforts to find and extract you and your passengers. The MMSI is a string of numbers which could with iffy communications be misunderstood as position information. When in doubt Lat/long takes precedence over MMSI.

In this country our own Coast Guard only got universal digital capacity in the past couple years. In many countries it doesn't yet exist on the ground. So emphasizing the MMSI is misplaced IMHO. I would also add that most recreational vessels in this country don't even have call signs either. The requirement to get one for domestic voyages was relaxed many years ago.

Ok, let's start with where I agree with you. The most important thing is to summon help by any means possible. I'm pretty well with you on that one

Now, where do I have some issues:

1/ Pan Pan unless on fire or sinking. If you have a serious illness or injury, for example - make that a Mayday too, please. If it's me that's seriously ill or hurt, I DEFINITELY want it to be a Mayday!

2/ MMSI is nice to add. Yes, fair point - but you need to consider the people taking your call too. If you've sent a DSC alert (ie you've pressed the red button), what will appear on screen is your MMSI. If you then use your callsign or your boat name to identify yourself and don't include your MMSI, you open the possibility of confusion, Making it clear that there is one distress call and not two increases your chances of success. If your country hasn't caught up with digital technology yet, fair enough. Where it is used, it's best to use it properly

3/MMSI could be confused with Lat and Long. I'd argue that is unlikely - but my stronger argument would be not to use Lat and Long anyway. Position as bearing and distance from something you can see is usually a better option. As you say though, position is more important than MMSI, no question about that

Ian

[SPR]

I always teach , i would better giving my position - a absolute relative position - as Seaskills says bearing and distance of known point.

this is again if somebody is nearby they are more than likely know where they are , rather than gps position. and easier to say!

regards

S.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

As are most of the books on the subject .

Its a good idea to have laminated copies of the following calls
Mayday
Pan Pan
Mayday Relay
Safety
In your Navbag or to hand so that , if a worse case scenario occurs then you or your crew can make the appropriate call.
Something we and I am sure other schools do.
Tim

Tim, if there is no longer somebody on board able to make a competent distress/urgency message to the CG (i,e, skipper has fallen off, been taken ill, or is occupied with some emergency on the vessel) then is is not always going to be a Mayday call? I wonder if by having multiple cards you are adding an extra element of confusion to the poor inexperienced person who has just been left in "charge" of the call.

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

3/MMSI could be confused with Lat and Long. I'd argue that is unlikely - but my stronger argument would be not to use Lat and Long anyway.

Ian I don't think it is just unlikely I think it is essentially impossible for a "broken" MMSI to be mistaken for a "broken" Lat/Long and incorrectly reassembled to a a lat long. Even if you happened to be in the very rare circumstance where the relevant figures could be constructed into a sensible location, without adding "degrees/decimal" and "north/west" to the digits in a lat long its going to be very difficult to know which bits you did hear. Moreover is the whole point of a standardised message format not to help with understanding partial messages? ie. the MMSI should be coming before the location. When people choose to rewrite the "standards" for their own purposes that is when confusion will come,

Position as bearing and distance from something you can see is usually a better option. As you say though, position is more important than MMSI, no question about that

I think that will depend on circumstances though. e.g. if I am 1.5 miles SW of Tarbet that gives a whole range of possibilities (and there are several other place names like that which are not unique). Likewise there are places I would call one thing which have a different name on OS maps and charts, or where as a visitor I might pronounce it differently from the locals. Add to that the possibility that if its me that is ill/overboard etc then my crew's description of location may not be as good as you would like. With most boats now having a GPS on boards - clearly reading the digits from the display seems more robust to me. Although if I am in on a RIB which doesn't have automatic distress position plotting and hear a mayday from another vessel I would much rather have a description, but again that will only be useful if their "landmark" is intelligible and meaningful to me.

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Ian I don't think it is just unlikely I think it is essentially impossible for a "broken" MMSI to be mistaken for a "broken" Lat/Long and incorrectly reassembled to a a lat long.

Yeah, I know. I was just being polite

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Yeah, I know. I was just being polite

Oh! I thought that meant putting *'s in when you reply B*******T !

[tim griffin]

Polwart a safety brief will cover this I hope .
You can buy these cards from most chandleries.
Tim

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Polwart a safety brief will cover this I hope .

My safety brief is simple. If I'm "not here" then mayday procedure as per the printed instructions. What circumstances does your safety brief suggest that the skipper is no longer in charge of the vessel, and it is not a mayday. (if there are other experienced people on board then they will be able to make the decision but also don't really need a "card").

[SPR]

+ 1 for Polwarts Brief!