Confused again - Electronics, NMEA etc

[brucehawsker]

Having been on Blue Ice (thx Richard B) to the Cowes fireworks, I have reached the conclusion that COG, SOG and depth are the three numbers I need to worry about. And I also realise that with particularly my navigator (and better half) 's eyesight, a large super clear map. We don't really need fancy fishfinder bottom plots in loads in colours!

I know the Lowrance plotter / finder 19C or 104 C would enable me to overlay the three numbers in large text on top of the map. But these are expensive solutions.

The lowrance GPS plotter 7000C is a better financial bet! I can overlay COG and SOG onto that easily, in large text. But it takes up map real estate...

Ideally I would prefer not to take up map real estate and thus go for cheaper 6000C with the smaller case and lower cost.

So how

a) do I get COG, SOG and depth in large letters on a b/w screen on a separate unit alongside the 6000C, or

b) do I get depth as an overlay item on the 7000C using I assume NMEA?

Sorry, this is perhaps an exotic request, but I can't get an answer from the electronics sellers I have so far talked to.

Thanks

Bruce

[jwalker]

Can you not feed the NMEA out to a repeater and select there what you want to view. I reckon you also need your course to waypoint. More important than depth for general navigation. If you keep your COG on top of your course, you'll get there.

I'm being careful here because recently different electronics companies have started using a confusion of terms. I take COG to mean direction of travel and course to mean the direction to your waypoint at the start of that leg. I hope that's clear enough.

Garmin used always to use track but they've started to use heading but Raymarine use heading as course. It's getting a bit messy. Actually, now I'm getting confused. I'll check it out

[brucehawsker]

I tend to remember what the course should be... hence the need for COG to be there in large.

What is a repeater? I thought I was beginning to get on top of this stuff???

And on what / how do you view from a repeater?

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

What is a repeater?

Well, sort of does exactly what it says on the tin... you can have chartplotter displaying the chart, and a separate text display from the same unit (bit like we have on Blue Ice, except driven from the same GPS engine).
Have a look at: http://www.nasamarine.com/Instruments/ClipperGPS.html

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

I tend to remember what the course should be... hence the need for COG to be there in large.

Bruce, it's not quite that simple. If you are doing it by numbers rather that a plotter display, you'll need to keep tabs on your cross track error because you could easily end up running parallel to your chosen course, but be a substantial distance away from it, and feel safe because the numbers look ok.

[brucehawsker]

You are, of course, correct. I meant that I would be viewing the map, and simultaneously looking at the course. The keys to me are depth - am I going to hit anything - speed - and is my GPS course what I am trying to achieve given where I am on the map.

Think I have a solution. It is sort of overkill, but cost effective.

Lowrance M52i is a simple fish finder with embedded GPS and internal antenna. It will overlay the relevant numbers on its b/w screen. Costs £219 all in from JGTech.

Pair that with a 6.3" diagonal 640 by 480 colour plotter Lowrance 6000C costing £1039 from the same source.

This compares to the x-19C combo with the same resolution (but onto which you would have to overlay the three numbers thus losing map real estate) at £1899 and you have a saving of £641 and only lose the colour detail on the sonar - so what - and gain effective map real estate.

Th real comparison, map real estate equivalent, is the 2299 x-104C!! But that is is huge to mount on a rib!

Thanks for help. Please tell me if I am missing something.

Bruce

Originally Posted by jwalker

Bruce, it's not quite that simple. If you are doing it by numbers rather that a plotter display, you'll need to keep tabs on your cross track error because you could easily end up running parallel to your chosen course, but be a substantial distance away from it, and feel safe because the numbers look ok.

[Erin]

I'm not entirely sure I've fully understood this thread, but it sounds to me as though you want a plotter which also shows your sog and cog without taking up too much screen space and thereby reducing the size of the displayed map. Am I correct?

If so, could I recommend the Garmin GPS2006C. It's a brilliant bit of kit as far as I'm concerned and allows you to show or hide the numbers overlay at the press of just one button. You can also adjust the size of the numbers and what numbers it actually shows. Failing that, most GPS's will accept NMEA data and you can therefore connect your main plotter to pass the sog and cog data to a secondary GPS and use it purely as a display unit/repeater.

Not the best photo in the world attached, but hope it helps.

[jwalker]

Yep but you've lost a third of your map. I use the 2010 and it is the same software. Bruce is right, it is an irritation to spend big dosh on a good screen and then waste it by displaying numbers. I send the numbers to my radar because it has a better system for displaying them without wasting the screen.

I see you have some of your numbers set to 'big' and that is important too if you're bouncing about on a rib. Also, I'd bet a £ that quite a few of us here don't any longer have the best eyes in the word and big, separate and clear are words which matter.

On a slightly different tack. I've recently got a Garmin GPSMAP76c and it is an outstanding piece of kit. The colour screen is just excellent and the black figures on a white background leave a mono display streets behind. In bright sunlight, which used to be problem for colour screens, it positively sparkles. It can do what Bruce is looking for and display 3 large datafields only if required. One of them can be depth from a sounder too. It's also a vehicle satnav and it seamlessly moves from charts to land maps.

I have it as a backup system and at the flick of a switch it takes over from the 2010. It is able to drive all four nmea inputs without flinching. I'm impressed.

[swginn]

Bruce, i think I may have an alternative to your solution. This is if you are stil going with the Optimax though!! You can link the GPS Plotter to the Smartcraft gauges and then these can display your SOG, COG, Distance & Fuel needed to next waypoint. Probably the cheapest solution as regards depth is to get the optional extra of a depth transducer with the engine and this will display your depth on the Smartcraft gauges also. Now I know this will mean all your information will be coming at you through the 2 Smartcraft gauges and will result in you having to switch displays constantly, but there is a simple solution to this also. Mercury do a range of 23 add-on gauges, see here:

http://www.mercurymarine.com/smartcraft_sc100_links_2

Why not add a depth gauge and a COG display to your package, then use the display on the Speedo to show SOG, leaving the Tacho display free for anything you want (I usually use Litres per Hr). Not only will these gauges look the part next to your main Smartcraft Gauges, but they will also be covered under the 3yr warranty that comes with the Optimax.

Another solution is this, the SC5000 Smartcraft display, but this may be a bit overkill!! Anybody know how much it is?

[David B]

try the Raymarine 435 i it does what all what you want !!!!
good sets too we have them on our own craft. want a bit of luxery try the C21 by Raymarine ( superb) see cruise to the baltic thread for pictures of this set in action !

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

You are, of course, correct. I meant that I would be viewing the map, and simultaneously looking at the course. The keys to me are depth - am I going to hit anything - speed - and is my GPS course what I am trying to achieve given where I am on the map.

Hi BRUCE
have you thought about doing the new RYA Intermediate course coastal cruising by day , as this will teach you how to plot a course without hitting anything , and will cover electronic navigation, i have a combined plotter
fish finder on my rib and you can change the numbers to large screen if you want, i know it does not answer your question, but you may find the course the natural progression to your ribbing i use Garmin and have done for many years , if you want to see the set up on my rib give me a call and i will go over it with you
reards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[brucehawsker]

Hi Tim,

Just did two days with Dave Robson from Yarmouth including revision of PBII and some day trip planning / GPS etc. Very helpful. Not sure what intermediate covers that we did not do. Please feel free (you or anyone else!)to 'sell' me an intermdiate course.

Was planning to do Advanced on our boat in the Spring having had a winter to play on our new RIB.

Have to sort electronics before then, though!

Am down South this week in Lymington. If you are across the water any time, please give us a ring and I would love to chat / buy you a beer, whatever.

Have PM'ed my mobile number to you.

Thx

Bruce

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by swginn

Another solution is this, the SC5000 Smartcraft display, but this may be a bit overkill!! Anybody know how much it is?

I am led to believe I have the only SC5000 in the country although I think the full retail is over £1000! (probably why!)

[brucehawsker]

Very helpful comments.

Smartcraft gauges are a bit small to see at speed for oldies like us??

Similarly the Raymarine 435 with 6" screen would be a problem with simultaneous large numerical display. £660 on jgtech.com

The Garmin 276C is similar, but priced at £500.

I like the proposed solution of

1. the Lowrance 6000C as full GPS colour plotter, and
2. the b/w Lowrance M52i as essentially a graphical depth finder combined with overlay data of Depth, SOG and COG, all three displayed in large letters each .7" high on its 4" diagonal screen. This latter unit has integral GPS aerial, a low res map which we will probably never use, and a low power but perfectly adequate sonar to give us an idea of the bottom structure, and a depth figure. It is only £219.

*The two of them are effectively then stand alone, although I hope the NMEA will enable us to display a large Depth on the 6000C if we need it in very bright conditions in harbour.
*We have a back up GPS in case one fails (as well as real charts and compass)

A few inevitable questions:

a) do we interface both GPS's to the DSC radio?
b) is the 6000C with its 6.5" diagonal screen the correct solution? Or am I going to regret not paying another £290 for the 10.4" 7000C. Would that larger one be cumbersome?

I intend to mount the big GPS on top of the centre of the dual console, with the M25i depth/fish finder on top to its left, and to its right directly in front of the helm the non-electronic ocean compass. The compass will be flush mounted, the other two on their twist and tilt stands.

Cheers and thanks

Bruce

[houser]

Hello,

Just another brief angle on the same topic.
I have a Raymarine C-series that has exactly this "issue" of wanting
as much screen real estate as possible for the maps.
I ended up keeping my trusty old garmin 76 handheld on the side
simply because I did not take it out and realised that one of the screens in the Garmin software does pretty much what is referred to in this thread:
Large SOG, COC, distance to next WP etc.. along with
a rudimentary X-track error display that is easy to
view at a glance.
Pretty good combo albeit the WPs and routes in the main display
obviously needs to get duplicated in both units.
(have an NMEA connection in the boat for this)
I guess you could argue whether it is a good idea to have a
separate GPS receiver regardless...backup=good but more things
to keep updated etc...

ah well, the usual FWIW, YMMV

all the best
Janne A.