Fuel Computers

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It'd still be cheaper to get 104 litres at channel islands prices

You're damn right it is. Just filled up this morning and amazingly it's cheaper than last year. Only 49.5p per litre. Fantastic

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Erin

You're damn right it is. Just filled up this morning and amazingly it's cheaper than last year. Only 49.5p per litre. Fantastic

Oh shut up!!!

Our petrol would be about 28p per litre without all the taxes!!!

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by Erin

You're damn right it is. Just filled up this morning and amazingly it's cheaper than last year. Only 49.5p per litre. Fantastic

That compares to the 119p a litre I paid in Cowes this afternoon

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Tim M

That compares to the 119p a litre I paid in Cowes this afternoon

Why pay it? If everyone refused they may drop their prices.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Why pay it? If everyone refused they may drop their prices.

or they may close the fuel barge and you would HAVE to use jerry cans.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

or they may close the fuel barge and you would HAVE to use jerry cans.

They obviously don't understand the simple concept of competitive pricing. I bet they would sell far more fuel and make more money if they dropped their prices. Obviously they can't compete with the supermarkets but people would pay a SMALL premium - 30p a litre is daylight robbery!!!

At those prices it would be worth filling up loads of cans and charging boaters an extra - say 15p a litre - you would make a fortune!!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

They obviously don't understand the simple concept of competitive pricing. I bet they would sell far more fuel and make more money if they dropped their prices. Obviously they can't compete with the supermarkets but people would pay a SMALL premium - 30p a litre is daylight robbery!!!

At those prices it would be worth filling up loads of cans and charging boaters an extra - say 15p a litre - you would make a fortune!!!

Nah - you obviously don't understand the effects of reducing prices on your bottom line... ...you need to massively increase your volumes to compensate.

Lets assume that the current forecourt price is 95p/L. Lets assume the marina pay 90p per L (I suspect they will be lucky to get it for that). They sell it at 120p per L. If they sell 10,000 L in a given period of time, they make £0.3 x 10,000 = £ 3000 gross profit.

Now if the marina reduce their price to 100p per L (still more than the forecourt). Then to make the same gross profit they have to sell 3x as much fuel. That just won't happen. Nobody increases volume by 3x overnight by reducing prices - especially in a market like they are where they largely rely on passing trade. The customers who choose not to use them are typically small volume users (because jerry cans or towing the boat to the forecourt are realistic alternatives) - so he probably has to find 5 or 6x as many customers to get the 3x the volume.

[Tim M]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Why pay it? If everyone refused they may drop their prices.

Because I had a nearly empty tank and fancied getting home without calling out the RNLI

I do object to paying that much, so much so I only put 40litres in to get me home so I can fill up in Gosport. Premier say they charge it at cost, but how come their cost is so much more than any small independant filling station - surly there costs are similar??

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Nah - you obviously don't understand the effects of reducing prices on your bottom line... ...you need to massively increase your volumes to compensate.

Lets assume that the current forecourt price is 95p/L. Lets assume the marina pay 90p per L (I suspect they will be lucky to get it for that). They sell it at 120p per L. If they sell 10,000 L in a given period of time, they make £0.3 x 10,000 = £ 3000 gross profit.

Now if the marina reduce their price to 100p per L (still more than the forecourt). Then to make the same gross profit they have to sell 3x as much fuel. That just won't happen. Nobody increases volume by 3x overnight by reducing prices - especially in a market like they are where they largely rely on passing trade. The customers who choose not to use them are typically small volume users (because jerry cans or towing the boat to the forecourt are realistic alternatives) - so he probably has to find 5 or 6x as many customers to get the 3x the volume.

I am quite capable of working that out - I still think they would increase their volume substantially. My mates garages increased their petrol volume by about 7 or 8 times when they switched suppliers and out their prices down.

Take an extreme example and use your maths. How much would they make if they put the price up to £2 a litre? Absolutely nothing - zilch!!! Would it be that difficult to increase the volume then by 3x if they dropped the price? No I don't think so.

A classic example is a garage near me that sells LPG - they charge 50p per litre for it - another garage in Swansea charges 40p - the garage that charges 50p only gets about 10 or 12 sales a week - the cheaper place always sells out!!!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am quite capable of working that out - I still think they would increase their volume substantially. My mates garages increased their petrol volume by about 7 or 8 times when they switched suppliers and out their prices down.

Take an extreme example and use your maths. How much would they make if they put the price up to £2 a litre? Absolutely nothing - zilch!!! Would it be that difficult to increase the volume then by 3x if they dropped the price? No I don't think so.

A classic example is a garage near me that sells LPG - they charge 50p per litre for it - another garage in Swansea charges 40p - the garage that charges 50p only gets about 10 or 12 sales a week - the cheaper place always sells out!!!

Cod - I don't really want to get into an argument with you on setting prices for this sort of thing as its clearly something you have little experience of or you would follow the arguments. I'm not breaking new ground here - this is well established business thinking.

I very much doubt that there are that many people driving past his fuel dock that he could triple his volume of sales by reducing prices. Your argument only works if he is losing lots of customers as a result of his high prices. Presumably since he is still selling fuel he is not. At £2/L he probably would (although then he only needs about 1/4 of his current volume)

Forecourt petrol prices are a different story. There are generally more options (i.e. competition). Petrol stations make profit from you in other ways (I have never used a marina/harbour fuel dock - but I assume they don't sell overpriced chocolate, drinks, bread, milk etc). Petrol prices are generally lower in cities because - there are more cars/customers and so the volume curve works but also there is obvious competition. Are you one of these people who drives 20 miles to save 1p/L? The reality is most people don't do that in their car - and definitely wont do it in a boat.

There are rarely two fuel docks / barges / harbours selling petrol within a mile of each other on the water. Bearing in mind that each nm usually uses about 1L of fuel (~£1) for most people here, even filling a 200L tank it is only economical travelling 2nm (round trip) for each 1p/L you can save. Would you go on a 1 hour round trip in your boat to save a couple of pounds?

LPG customers are particularly price conscious (thats why they have LPG cars) so the effect will be exagerated. Petrol boat owners are not generally as price conscious or they would follow other more ecconomical pursuits.

Finally it all comes down to the fact that the core function of the harbour/marina's business is not to sell fuel. Its something they do for the convenience of their clients. He probably isn't going to lose sleep if he doesn't sell any fuel, it has a pile of HMRC, local authority license, HSE, insurance, Environment Agency headaches attached to it that he could do without.

[codprawn]

Considering I have helped my mate run his 8 petrol stations off and on for the last 10 years of course I don't have a clue what I am on about.......

You mention choice and say there aren't likely to be 2 fuel barges - of course you are right BUT when the price of fuel gets that high people WILL go to the bother of filling up from cans filled at supermarket garages etc - after all they are everywhere.

5p premium - oh ok it's hard work with cans - 10p - grumble grumble but still can't be bothered - 20p - that's taking the mick that is - sod them I will carry cans unless I am totally stuck. I certainly wouldn't pay £100 more to fill my boat than I would need to and many people feel the same.

My mate with the Ferrari is loaded - and yet he wouldn't dream of sticking petrol in a motorway services - he searches out the cheapest garage he can find!!!

[Spottydog]

Just to stick my oar in.........I agree with Codders here.

My local marina provides diesel but not petrol. When asked if they were going to in the future, I was told - No, because the underground tanks and all the other infrastucture was going to cost around £60,000!

Therefore a marina operator does not (or if he does he is mad) provide fuel for the convenience of his customers. He must run it as a business.

There is a lot more to it than gross profit. To be sitting on £10k to £20k's worth of stock underground without shifting it, and the cost of the ancilliary hardware being idle is suicidal cash flow. Most successful retailers rely on high turnover, low stockholding and high amounts of credit with their suppliers, keeping that money in the bank earning interest.

By reducing their prices to a reasonable level, turnover would increase massively. Even the guys in small boats who can easily transport fuel in jerrys would use them rather than stink up the car. Larger boats may well go out a bit more if they suddenly had a 20% reduction in their fuel bill.

Lets face it. Marinas charge what they do because they can. Like everything else they do, demand outstrips supply massively in most areas of the country. They see you coming and ask you to bend over.

Maybe they would make even more money if they did the job right.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Considering I have helped my mate run his 8 petrol stations off and on for the last 10 years of course I don't have a clue what I am on about.......

You mention choice and say there aren't likely to be 2 fuel barges - of course you are right BUT when the price of fuel gets that high people WILL go to the bother of filling up from cans filled at supermarket garages etc - after all they are everywhere.

5p premium - oh ok it's hard work with cans - 10p - grumble grumble but still can't be bothered - 20p - that's taking the mick that is - sod them I will carry cans unless I am totally stuck. I certainly wouldn't pay £100 more to fill my boat than I would need to and many people feel the same.

My mate with the Ferrari is loaded - and yet he wouldn't dream of sticking petrol in a motorway services - he searches out the cheapest garage he can find!!!

So if you are such an expert - and there is a missed market opportunity -put your money where your mouth is, open a fuel barge reduce your prices to forecourt prices and if you make a profit I'll eat my words. Otherwise I think you have to accept that the people running the facilities (successfully) know their business...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Spottydog

Just to stick my oar in.........I agree with Codders here.

My local marina provides diesel but not petrol. When asked if they were going to in the future, I was told - No, because the underground tanks and all the other infrastucture was going to cost around £60,000!

Therefore a marina operator does not (or if he does he is mad) provide fuel for the convenience of his customers. He must run it as a business.

There is a lot more to it than gross profit. To be sitting on £10k to £20k's worth of stock underground without shifting it, and the cost of the ancilliary hardware being idle is suicidal cash flow. Most successful retailers rely on high turnover, low stockholding and high amounts of credit with their suppliers, keeping that money in the bank earning interest.

By reducing their prices to a reasonable level, turnover would increase massively. Even the guys in small boats who can easily transport fuel in jerrys would use them rather than stink up the car. Larger boats may well go out a bit more if they suddenly had a 20% reduction in their fuel bill.

Lets face it. Marinas charge what they do because they can. Like everything else they do, demand outstrips supply massively in most areas of the country. They see you coming and ask you to bend over.

Maybe they would make even more money if they did the job right.

Absolutely - high capital costs are part of the reason that dockside fuel is expensive. No matter how cheap there wont be as big a throughput as a forecourt so that capital cost has to be shared across smaller no of users.

Charging what you do because you can - is business. Why charge less? If I implied he was providing fuel solely for your convenience then I didn't communicate myself very well. Of course he wants to make profit (otherwise he would drop his prices and make less profit). But is that where a marina makes most of its money? I think not. Why does a marina not offer petol - you are right - because of the costs, so if it was easy money as you and CP suggest that doesn't stack up. An influence on types of fuel available will be the number of other marinas in the area - the demand for marina berths and the if the competitors offer petrol etc.

[Spottydog]

I don't know what sort of business you are involved with, but I have been in retail for 20 years. It is so difficult to get people out of the dogma of "gross profit is king - the more I charge the more I make". Discounting works. I have seen in the past that by dropping prices by 5% can increase turnover by 100% and give greater profit. I have a local Shell petrol station that used to match my local Tesco. It was heaving all the time. They have now increased prices to Tesco+1p and trade has all but vanished.

My marina would have a monopoly that would stretch over 55 miles in any 3 directions (the 4th is dry land!) and cover 100's and 100's of boats, yet he still won't even contemplate putting petrol in. Is that because he just doesn't want to or does he know that boat owners won't pay a 30p premium for petrol and is unwilling to "fight" for the business?

Anyway, it doesn't matter. One of the reasons people buy Ribs is because of their transportability, so fuel is not a real problem as they can be filled up at Tesco.

Suppose we had better stop hijacking this thread (again).

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Spottydog

Suppose we had better stop hijacking this thread (again).

agreed.

[isla]

Originally Posted by Chris1573

Also I have had a look at the instructions on their website and it states that the digital guage must be 500mm away from the VHF is this critical as I am short on space on my console and would have to mount the guage just above the VHF (100mm)?

Chris

strange! in my instructions it does not come said this particular one of distance from the vhf, I have only had problems of remarkable jolts in the reading, resolved with interposing in the tube one containment valve
by

[codprawn]

Back onto the original topic - had rain a few days ago - Navman playing up yet again - will have to take it out and send it back.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Back onto the original topic - had rain a few days ago - Navman playing up yet again - will have to take it out and send it back.

Then pour yourself a large Malt and sit back and relax.

When mine failed the dealer put me onto Plastimo who asked me to send it to an Electronics firm in Poole. They had a big fight with Plastimo over warrantee work which took 3 months, but a new one did eventually arrive.

Pete