Icom Help - Page 2

roycruse · 22 March 2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

Roy,

I haven't touched my M1EuroV since last September - I just turned it on - still fully charged!! I'll leave it on for a bit to see if it stays that way - or just falls over...

D...

I may have to get one of those then - problem is I was led to believe that the lithium upgrade for the m31 would give me similar performance - it seems that icom have just chucked a lithium battery in a radio that was not designed for one and therefore cannot take advantage of its properties.

Bloody cheek that they then decided to charge extra for it !!!

Jon Brooks · 22 March 2006, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by roycruse

Its a shame its not ICOM policy to advise you of this before you part with your cash.
Ian - better watch out for your AA batteries they will probably get flattened by this radio also - what a ridiculous feature

All dealers a re made fully aware, we have and alsways do the very vest we can.
Once we have advised the dealers we can do very little to ensure they tell you the user.

The sheet is put into the boxes at the sae time as the warranty card.

The feature is there because a huge number of the population do not know how to and do not look after their ni-cad and Nimh batteries.
They do not understand the problem of "memory effect" and then suffer from short battery life.
It was feltit was a good feature and has had very positive feed back.

IMHO it is good working practice to always charge any kit, you may need to use in an emergency, prior to going to sea.

The M31 is the only radio in the line up that has the battery discharge feature.
The M1V will last a very very long time between charges.
I get calls here with customers who think they have a fault as they have not had to charge for a whole season.

Roy, as you know I don't like unhappy customers.
Please call me here or drop me an e-mail so as I can put this right for you.

01227 741741
jonb@icomuk.co.uk

Best regards

roycruse · 22 March 2006, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Roy, as you know I don't like unhappy customers.
Please call me here or drop me an e-mail so as I can put this right for you.

Many thanks John - ICOM UK do indeed have the very best customer service I have come across in electrical items so far...

ian parkes · 22 March 2006, 16:32

battery discharge feature . Does that mean that my M31 is going to discharge the duracell batteries also when its packed away in my emergency bag surely this feature has been disabled for this model ??

Jon Brooks · 22 March 2006, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

battery discharge feature . Does that mean that my M31 is going to discharge the duracell batteries also when its packed away in my emergency bag surely this feature has been disabled for this model ??

Ian

Yes it will.
The feature can not be turned off and there is no design change in the radio at all, its purly a different battery and charger.
As I posted earlier you should remove the battery from the radio.

Mine is in a waterproof bag, battery fully charged, AA case there but batteries out of the case still in their wrapper.

Regards

ian parkes · 22 March 2006, 16:47

yes but battery removed its not a waterproof radio anymore is it .

I have this image now in my head , the shits hit the fan all I have is my emergency bag as I swim for my life so I fumble for my radio and the battery pack , oh and a coin to close the battery case . I don't believe it !

Looks like a trip back to yatchparts for a refund . Just glad I found out now
In america this will probably result in a lawsuit one day .

Solent Ranger · 22 March 2006, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

yes but battery removed its not a waterproof radio anymore is it .

I have this image now in my head , the shits hit the fan all I have is my emergency bag as I swim for my life so I fumble for my radio and the battery pack , oh and a coin to close the battery case . I don't believe it !

Before you get carried away and all panicky, if you are so concerned then why not get a nice case and then with a carrabiner attach it to your life jacket. I have mine permanently on my life jacket - not hidden away in a grab bag. That way the radio is always to hand and if you go over then the radio goes with you.

Jon Brooks · 22 March 2006, 17:04

Ian

We would never sell anything that could result in a law suit.
The unit is sold in the US as the M32.

If it was felt that this radio was dangerous in any way it would have been withdrawn a long time ago.

If you check and charge you radio prior to going to sea you will have no problem.
Again this I always do.
With the lithium-ion battery this means you can top up the battery at any stage of charge.

With the battery in place the m31 will take about 6 weeks to drain the Lithium-ion battery.
4 weeks for the Ni-cad.
AA cells though not tested I am guessing about 3 months.

Do you top up you mobile phone prior to going away for a few days or before you go out in your boat?
Most people charge them every day

Then why not your VHF?

Regards

ian parkes · 22 March 2006, 17:10

Fair comment in a way but having the radio constantly on my BA is a pain .
I always put an emergency bag in any boat I use and if Iam just out for an hour Iam not going to bother clipping a radio to me etc . Also as much of my time is spent on the beach the constant sand and salt is going to shorten the radio's life .

iam not impressed to say the least , I told the dealer what I wanted the radio for and the exact use , he was really helpful and clearly unaware of this feature that I would have to describe as a Fault .

ian parkes · 22 March 2006, 17:41

Jon your last post arrived as i was posting mine so didn't read it first .

In reply I would say .

Vhf radio's like this are likely to be carried by adventuring people for the sole purpose of distress use . As a kayaker I used to be away often for a month and the situation I described could be a very real one to any mariner .

The AA battery model I purchased is probably often purchased as an emergency only radio. The fact that duracell bateries have a long shelf life is another reason for their use .

I would ask the folowing
If this discharge feature is so important to Ni Cad battery users why is this the only radio Icom produce with this feature , and why is not a selling point or pointed out in the hanbook . Simply leaving the radio turned on is enough to discharge the battery prior to charging and a note to do this is present on every Ni Cad Product I own and thats a dozen at least

If this is a feature of this radio surely it could easily be disabled in manufacture for the new Li ion battery models and the AA models .

You say that Icom would never sell anything that could cause a Lawsuit but would you like a case Like I describe to be tested in the compensation culture we have today .Icom should at least cover thier ass with a note in the handbook . But maybe that would not be good for sales ??

I purchased this radio after reading a test where it came Joint top radio in Practical Boat Owner they clearly knew nothing of this "feature" iether , considering their very fussy coments about safety use .

Jon Brooks · 22 March 2006, 18:24

Ian

As I mentioned in an earlier post they is a note in all the radio's advising of this.
If not then either someone at my place is for the high jump in the morning or it has come out.
Your right it is not in the handbook hence the note.

Most if not all dealers should be awrea of the feature, we dont try to hide it.

It feature is part of the processor and is not possible to change without a redesign of the radio completely.

I would have to disagree with you idea of who it is sold to.
Looking at the sales of who and where, it is sold for all kinds of uses.
Both lesiure and comercial.

Whilst you clearly understand how to look after a ni-cad battery I can asure you that there is a huge number that don't.

Once again I refer you back to my earlier post re charging prior to setting out.
The unit can be charge in 1.5 hours from mains or 12v.
Surely it makes sence to charge prior to setting out?
This can be done at home, in the car or even on the boat.

With this in mind if you were to sue and it went to court I am sure one of the first questions asked would be "when did you last check and charge your radio?"
If the reply cam well a few day's, a week maybe longer I am again sure that no court in the land would side against the people that make the radio.

With regard to why do we do it and no one else well we only make radio, we dont make it as a side line to making GPS, Plotter, Radar etc.
We have been making radio since the 50's, far longer and IMHO and that of other, better than anyone else.
We do it becuase we felt at the time it was needed.

Maybe its just me but I never set out without checking and charging the radio's.
The one in my grab bag and the own I body wear as Solent suggested.
My mobile is charges as is all kit that runs from battery.

Am sure that after such a short time frame Yachtbits will sort a refund with you if your not 110% and if they qubble ask them to call me and I will secure it for you.

Regards

Solent Ranger · 22 March 2006, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Vhf radio's like this are likely to be carried by adventuring people for the sole purpose of distress use . As a kayak I used to be away often for a month and the situation I described could be a very real one to any mariner .

The AA battery model I purchased is probably often purchased as an emergency only radio. The fact that duracell bateries have a long shelf life is another reason for their use .

With no disrespect meant, I would not have bought the radio you did, for the purposes you needed it for! The best option would have been to go for the M1V - more expensive, but that is because of the battery, it retains it's charge, it lasts a long time in use and it can be charged at any time. ICOM have in fact now introduced a model (can't recall the model number at moment) that has a 6watt output which is more than any other H/H on the market. Again, I think a reason for paying a bit more if you are using it as your only means of comms, which judging from your comments re Kayaking it would appear to be.

As to attaching to your buoyancy aid - I have a Zambezi which has an external pocket designed to take a H/H vhf. It works a treat. I use it when jet ski instructing. It is in fact a kayaking BA. You can see the VHF pouch on the picture HERE

ian parkes · 22 March 2006, 19:51

Jon
I guess my note must have fallen out . I will let you know if the notes are in the ones in the shop . other notes are intact though
Yellow note about washing the radio
Lithium Ion battery precautions and warranty card

Plenty in the instructions to contradict the advise about storing the radio without a battery conected stating that water or dust should not get into the battery compartment etc .

Specific power drain figures at different operating powers are quoted but nothing about the special one to save battery life when it used to have a different battery .

Li Ion seperate battery notes also say that battery life is shortened if the battery is left completely discharged .

Iam just so glad I found all this out now while I still have the option of returning the radio before its been used .

I quite fankly don't believe there is a special feature to flatten the battery . Any company building in special features boast about them in their advetising
Literature , this one is a secret.
Oh Just shut the owners manual and on the back cover it says "count on us !"
Icom don't make flares do they

roycruse · 22 March 2006, 20:28

I am in complete agreement with Ian on this specific so called "feature" as I too think it should be plastered all over the box with a big red sticker - It caught me out - and its bound to catch others. I keep a torch in my emergency bag also and a backup wrist mounted gps - I expect only to need to check and charge or replace the batteries periodically on all this kit - not to have to take every piece of emergency kit out of the boat every single time I go out.

In fairness though, every other Icom unit I have owned or used has been a superb bit of kit - I came over to the icom stable after some dreadful experiences with some Silva kit and overall have found them to be very reliable.

I have never before had reason to require any customer service from Icom but today John Brooks offered it to me without me even having to ask. This kind of after sales service is worth quite a lot in my opinion and I will continue to recommend Icom to anyone that asks me (just not that particular radio).

ashbypower · 22 March 2006, 20:35

Whilst I am not trying to defend ICOM in any way if you check out http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....&highlight=m31 It's all been said before. Caveate emptor (sp) me thinks.

Regards

Brian

roycruse · 22 March 2006, 20:52

That was an interesting thread - so is this discharging issue common to all radios with a soft on off switch - how many radios have soft on off switches.

My garmin foretrex gps has a soft on off switch and I've left that for weeks and its been fine when id turned it on.

I guess its down to circuit design and how much drain there is on the battery when in its "sleep" mode - as any device with a soft on off button must remain on to a degree in order to detect the press of the switch.

ian parkes · 22 March 2006, 21:19

Solent ranger is right I did buy the wrong radio for my pupose .
However I have spent some time making a choice , by asking questions on here about radios that take AA bateries stating my exact purpose , and also reading a magizine article in a very respected publication . And asking the dealer for advise .
After all this research I still managed to get it wrong because nobody knew about the discharge "feature"

So what am I going to do

Same as I always have carry decent flares a back up compass and usual emergency kit and not rely on any electrickery at all exept a torch and strobe .

Chris Murray · 22 March 2006, 22:26

I bought my IC-M31 at the London Boat Show, soon after it came out. At that time, I was "between boats" but thought that it would be a good idea, in case I decided to take my tender out. I never did. It would eventually become a back-up for my new boat.

I have recently paid £86 to upgrade the battery and charger. The immediate benefit is that the radio + battery is considerably lighter than the NiCad battery on its own.

I have no idea whether or not a slip was included with the radio - if it was then it has since been separated, although the manual remains with it.

So there you have it ... I paid a total of more than £200, for a radio that has built-in discharge. Nice one Jon!

... And to think that I have specified the Icom 421 for my Scorpion!

Is there anything I should know about this? Will it flatten my boat battery???

Chris.

seaquest1 · 22 March 2006, 22:52

i have a icom model ic-m1eurc v i bought some time ago just discovered the on of switch does not work now i have to take the li-on battery pack off

anyone here know where to get fixed rough price for new switch

mike

roycruse · 22 March 2006, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Murray

And to think that I have specified the Icom 421 for my Scorpion!

Is there anything I should know about this? Will it flatten my boat battery???

The 421 is a perfectly good little radio. I have it on my boat - Im sure you will be pleased with it.