In Hull or Transom Mount Transducer?

[The Gurnard]

Hi again guys .. I was looking for some photos to hopefully show I had a rough idea on how I fitted the transom mount but unfortunately I cant find any at present. It was almost identical to the photo of Fenlanders..ie baton mounted then secured to transom.

Here is what I changed it to.



Its the same transducer.. its in the grey fibreglass box I made and filled with baby oil. Its never moved or broke despite my clumsy nature...and works every time ..plug and play as they say

For info only This is the same boat the OP was asking about ..perhaps everyone can now see why a guy with ten thumbs like myself ..kept snapping the transom mounted one off .


The boat is small .. folded up then stuffed in the back of the car with the rest of the boating gear

For me at least ... the in hull one lasts and is maintenance free . .and it works to my requirements as I never go in 1000ft deep water so don’t require a more expensive unit

[mm289]

Thanks for the pics decisions, decisions eh - whats really needed is a back to back test

So your transducer is a transom mount one just mounted internally as opposed to a dedicated in hull one?

Cheers,

Paul.

[The Gurnard]

You can do your own back to back test mm289 if you wish .. because ..yes .. its the “standard” elite 3x transom transducer ..not to be confused with more expensive types or even dedicated in hull transducers

I did my back to back test ..and you now know my results

Before doing it … I did a lot of research on the internet in how to use transom mount transducers “in hull” . I got a lot of the info I wanted from the guys on the WSF forum. Some are very knowledgeable chaps with transducers and fishfinders. I followed their instructions.

I bought a single electric socket box and blank lid from B&Q.. (the white hard plastic type that stick out from skirting boards in a house) I cut the bottom of the box out and sikaflexed it to the F Rib hull as shown in that last photo..the transducer fits in the box perfectly with a touch of sikaflex at the front and rear of the transducer to hold it in place. Its important the transducer bottom is not touching anything or gets sikaflex on it as I believe that is where the signal is sent from.

Once the sikaflex had cured I filled the box with baby oil and sealed it all with the lid. The baby oil transmits the signal to the F Rib hull..which is only around 4mm thick fibreglass ..so I suspect not much loss of signal although obviously a little. They recommended either baby oil or castor oil as heavier oils ..eg engine oil ... may rot the lead or plastic around the transducer.

The electric socket box is very hard but a bit brittle ..so I then put a couple of layers of fibreglass round it to strengthen it and ensure the hole where the lead comes through the lid was sealed properly.

Im delighted with my setup ...and can confirm the info given on WSF worked for me.

Do keep in mind..I CANT compare expensive fish finders to cheap ones ..so you might be happy with an expensive transom mount one which holds 1000ft at 40 knots no problem .. you might not be as clumsy as me either and wont knock it off

choice is yours ..Im only passing on what works for me

[jonp]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

Jonp I have similar set up 83/200 I usually set it on auto as it suits my needs just for info are you setting yours up in advanced mode manually?

They work fine straight out of the box but lowrance do recomend setting the transducer you have from a huge selection within the menu.

[jonp]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Hi Jonp.. I think that you are still trying to compare apples with oranges.

The reason I say that is the HDS 8 you have shown prints for probably has a far higher sonar signal send unit and also more sensitive receiver than the cheapo Elite 3x that I keep quoting figures to you. I believe even the fish finders are not “standard” in that respect and I have always assumed these factors affect the depth reading as well as other factors ..including differences in transducer quality and poor installation.?

Example in the Elite 3x manual..and I would suspect their quote of the max depth for the unit is more accurate than your “guess ?” for this particular unit.

Max Depth ..800ft ..power output 130watts

http://ww2.lowrance.com/Root/Lowranc...0547-001_w.pdf

Now compare that with the more expensive Elite 4x

Max Depth 1000ft or more ..power output 250watts

I presume it would also explain why some fishfinders cost over £1000 and some under £100 but if you think they are all standard and should read the same depths.. as mentioned please correct me because Im not an expert.



I quoted 200khz simply to compare it with your 200khz reading..I do appreciate 83khz goes deeper but I cant compare those figures with your Standard 50khz figures... as then I would be the one comparing apples to oranges



If you can convince me that all sonar send levels and sensitivity of the various models are identical.. or if they are not..at least they should all read the same depth .. then I will look into my setting up procedure ..until then..Im very happy with my setups thank you



Im sorry..but I disagree on that point ..the OP was asking about transom mount or in hull mount..or thats the way I read

Quote from first post.“So given the above, any thoughts/advice/experience of different transducers?”

And I answered that … on an identical boat to his ..I preferred my in hull fitting to transom mount..because the transom mount kept bending and eventually broke off putting it in my car every other day..

Hope that helps you understand my thoughts

My understanding was he was asking about a gps plotter with sonar and a price of around $300. People who have upgraded to newer units get nothing for old one here, so $300 should get something new or secondhand pretty good in my opinion. I wasn't aware the opp was getting the same as you have.

I have a hds 5 combo with a 200/83 that I tried to sell for £50 on here and the WSF forum ( close to 1 million members ). On that forum I have helped many people with the setup of their Lowrance units. By the way the hds 5 picked up bottom every bit as well as my current hds 12 ( though far less resolution) but there are ways around using more res for just small sections of the water colum (not the zoom tool). I have another mate waiting for a new carbon series, I will be removing a large screen hummingbird and Garmin from his boat. He's tried advertising his units at very low prices but had no interest. I also setup a hook 12 in the last two weeks for another friend who now has a fruno he can't sell, gathering dust in his garage.

Once again my quotes were to help anyone trying to make a decision on a unit.

I'm happy for you with your unit but as mentioned wasn't aware it does gps and wasn't aware the op had made his mind up to use the same as you when I posted.

We have over 25000 regestered boats in my state alone, I can guarantee at least 95% are transome mounted transducers, though I have fitted through hull and inhull on a few boats.

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by jonp

My understanding was he was asking about a gps plotter with sonar and a price of around $300....

Hi again Jonp.. if Im honest..my English interpretation is probably as weak as my knowledge of transducers and fishfinders. You obviously have the edge on me in both of these subjects so thanks for correcting me.

For my sins ... Here are the points that made me think the OP wanted information on the ins and outs of in hull or transducer fitting on an F Rib..which is the same boat I have.

Originally Posted by mm289

I have seen some people use transom mount and I know @gurnard has used an in hull fixed to the inside of his F-rib.

As I have a F-rib as well I am thinking about doing the same but just wanted to get opinions.

Thanks guys, I am leaning towards and in hull. Seems a lot less hassle to me than a transom mount. The one I am looking at recommended by Cactus is a dedicated in hull though so could try in different positions but once I'm committed it couldn't be change to a transom mount.

As mentioned earlier, the ability to depth sound on the move is more important to me than the ultimate clarity of view when fishfinding etc so that's why I am thinking in hull.

I think the other variable to mention is I am using it on a Frib, rather than a RIB, so like Gurnard it gets pack away after every trip. Also it is a relatively short hull length being a 3.3m Frib

I will leave it at that..there is little more I can add to help mm289 on the above quotes and your replies either confuse or don't impress me jonp

I realise that's my problem too and not yours jonp

[Fenlander]

JonP I'm not sure if you realise it looks as if you are chasing The Gurnard into a corner for no good reason.

The OP said...

**Anyways, that's not the point of the post - transducers are. I have seen some people use transom mount and I know @gurnard has used an in hull fixed to the inside of his F-rib. As I have a F-rib as well I am thinking about doing the same but just wanted to get opinions.**

Gurnard having the same boat type gave his transducer mounting experience and the reason with his use why he went for the in-hull.

Gurnard's setup gives a performance that at 400ft or so exceeds what average leisure sibbers really need so it's all good info.

[mm289]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

.. you might not be as clumsy as me either and wont knock it off

LoL, then again - I just might

Thansk for all the info, I hadn't realised you had used a transom tranny as an in-hull, I had assumed you had bought a dedicated in hull. As you say that does open my options up as I can do a back to back and see what works for me.

On that basis I will probably go for the Garmin 45CV and whatever is the recommended "standard" transom mount tranny and play with mounting points.

Until my first trip up to the West coast any inshore work will be in the English Channel up to a mile or two out so mega depth won't be my issue really - now if I was on Loch Ness

Once I get it rigged up I will post up some screen shots/review on different positions so anyone else looking at this route can get some input as well

Cheers,

Paul.

[Orwell boy]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Speak to the garmin helpline boys ,they are very helpful ,i made a call the other day as i had bought a 6 pin transom mount tranducer but fancied trying to use it in hull so i could keep the transom mounted Lowrance dedicated depth finder as well (which was not my original plan ) the guys emailed me instructions on how to mount the transom mount in hull ,good guys

as i said post two ,the garmin boys sent me instuctions to mount transom mount in hull

[boristhebold]

Ive had both types on my rib, the in-hull type gives a better more reliable reading at speed and in rough water conditions than transom mount.

In your case if your exploring close to the shore then you have probably allready referred to a chart to spot any danger areas so would probably be going slow anyway so probably not too much of an issue if transom mounted.

[The Gurnard]

Originally Posted by mm289

Thansk for all the info,

Only too glad to offer my personal experience mm289.

Beware though.. I did exaggerate a little.

There is little wrong with my interpretation of the English language

[mm289]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

as i said post two ,the garmin boys sent me instuctions to mount transom mount in hull

To be fair, I tried to do just that, after being on hold for 5 minutes I tried again, to get an automated message saying it was a 22-32 minute wait so have now e-mailed them.

But I also wanted some views from those that have fitted both and that is what I have got which is great.

Hope your head doesn't hurt too much from banging it

Cheers,

Paul.

[mm289]

Originally Posted by The Gurnard

Only too glad to offer my personal experience mm289.

Beware though.. I did exaggerate a little.

There is little wrong with my interpretation of the English language

appreciated, hope to get up your way at some point with the Frib and can buy you some "gravy"

Cheers,

Paul.

[Orwell boy]

Originally Posted by mm289

To be fair, I tried to do just that, after being on hold for 5 minutes I tried again, to get an automated message saying it was a 22-32 minute wait so have now e-mailed them.

But I also wanted some views from those that have fitted both and that is what I have got which is great.

Hope your head doesn't hurt too much from banging it

Cheers,

Paul.

yes ,bit of a low blow on my part , however it does just show "what a difference a day makes " i spoke to garmin twice and both times after selecting marine option the phone rang once to the guy answering who sorted me quickly ,sounds like the knowledge has gone on holiday

[mm289]

Lol, no worries buddy, just out of interest, were you using the support number off the UK website, as I didn't get the option of "marine"?

Cheers,

Paul.

[Orwell boy]

i used 0808 238 0000 and then took a few selections to get to marine , i have an emai from robbe which i can forward if any use pm me your email if you need

[mm289]

Got an e-mail response this morning which I will add in below for future info Note my question related to a Garmin Echomap 45CV

"Thank you for contacting Garmin Europe.

Garmins In-Hull transducers will only provide Traditional sonar, which will give you a basic depth and will operate up to around 40 knots (GT8-IH only).

GT8-IH
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/573584

GT15-IH
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/530269

However if you wish to take advantage of the Clear vu option of your device you will require a through hull or transom mount Clear vu capable transducer, such as the GT20-TM, which is the recommended transducer for this device.

GT20-TM

https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/537065

Transom mount transducers are only able to operate up to around 15 knots before cavitation becomes a factor."

I now have a previous model (45DV) on its way with a GT20 transom mount and will experiement and post result on this, initial in transom mount mode, and if that isn't succesful, as Gurnard and Orwell Boy have pointed out I can install it as a in hull and compare results

Watch this space........

Cheers,

Paul.

[Fenlander]

Same combo and transducer as mine. Hope it suits you as well as it does me... can't fault its operation and performance.

Totally straightforward to fit and use. Only tip I can give is to take care with the very fine wires that go to the battery so they are protected from movement/fracture. Also take care to make good crimps onto these fine wires as the most brief loss of 12V will make it think you wanted to turn off and then you have to go through the boot up delay when you push the on button again.

This frustrated me on a few trips last year where it would turn off in very rough bumpy conditions. But a good check through the connections found a loose crimp. It's been fine with that resolved.

[mm289]

Originally Posted by Fenlander

Same combo and transducer as mine. Hope it suits you as well as it does me... can't fault its operation and performance.

Yep, this was one of your (many) great posts that I read to point me in the direction

After looking at all the sub £400 plotters/fishfinders the Garmin came out best mainly due to the decent maps (G2) pre loaded without having to upgrade to Nav Gold or similar.

Cheers,

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by mm289

.......you will require a through hull........... I can install it as a in hull......

Just sticking my pedantic 2 penneth in. "Through hull" & "in hull" are very different beasts. Through hull is the case in point here, I.e sticking the transducer inside the hull & it "sees" through the hull. "In hull" however, involves drilling a hole in the hull & mounting the transducer on the outside of the hull with the cable passing through the aforementioned hole. These are common on yachts & displacement hulls.
I'll get me coat.....