Military waterproof coating for phones

codprawn · 01 January 2008, 22:02

Ion-Mask is a new coating that can be applied to all sorts of things - from trainers to phones and radios to make them 100% waterproof. We should be hearing loads about this soon. it may even spell the end of my Freezer Bags!!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...scitech230.xml

Originally developed at Porton Down to repel bio warfare agents..........

Simon B · 02 January 2008, 01:48

Come on cods, they've numerous good robust, water resistant phones then withdrawn then from the market..... why do you think that was.........!?

I seriously doubt that they will stsrt to use this stuff if it is as good as it says for the very reasons that we can get a good waterproof vhf but not a good water resistant phone... but you cant charge them! oh yes you can... but you cant make waterproof data sockets oh yes you can!.......(flatline, continuous tone)

codprawn · 02 January 2008, 02:44

The big advantage of this stuff is that it can be used during manufacture to protect the main circuits - so if used on a VHF radio for example then even if water does get past the seals and covers it will still work fine. Maybe Navman will start using it on their fuel computers....................

nugent · 02 January 2008, 08:20

we had some sales rep in our place prior to xmas with some solution, name escapes me at present, think it may be Nova,
this barmy git got a std light fitting with normal 240v baynet bulb pluged it in mains sprayed solution and immersed it in bucket of water whilst still holding it, now thats faith or dam right stupid, was amazed to be shaking his hand at the end of the demo. expected to be pumping his chest instead,

there is also a vidio of a tv being sprayed with cover of, then placing in vat of water, strange watching tv under water,

Poly · 02 January 2008, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon B

Come on cods, they've numerous good robust, water resistant phones then withdrawn then from the market..... why do you think that was.........!?

I seriously doubt that they will stsrt to use this stuff if it is as good as it says for the very reasons that we can get a good waterproof vhf but not a good water resistant phone... but you cant charge them! oh yes you can... but you cant make waterproof data sockets oh yes you can!.......(flatline, continuous tone)

Simon - you may just have solved a mystery for me which has been puzzling me for years - why IP67 VHF but not even IP55 phones... ...if I understand you correctly you are saying the issue is the power and data connections. The power connections on my VHF are (IIRC) two 1/8" x1/8" stainless (?) patches an inch apart - I suppose that would be a bit big for most phones. For data blue tooth is presumably the "easy" answer for waterproofing?

Poly · 02 January 2008, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

The big advantage of this stuff is that it can be used during manufacture to protect the main circuits - so if used on a VHF radio for example then even if water does get past the seals and covers it will still work fine. Maybe Navman will start using it on their fuel computers....................

I may be wrong but I don't think this is proposed as a treatment for electronic circuits themselves but rather as a way of treating casings to help keep water out. It is a plasma process so is unlikely to be very good for the average circuit board.

codprawn · 02 January 2008, 13:42

i think it's suitable for most things but yes it's mainly to make the whole unit waterproof. The plasma can't get that hot if they can apply it to fine textiles and paper!!!

Poly · 02 January 2008, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

The plasma can't get that hot if they can apply it to fine textiles and paper!!!

temperature is not the problem its the charge / electric fields. They will either be generating the plasma using an RF or microwave induced discharge (or one of the varients) - you wouldn't put your phone in a microwave and expect it to work afterwards.

Simon B · 02 January 2008, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Simon - you may just have solved a mystery for me which has been puzzling me for years - why IP67 VHF but not even IP55 phones... ...if I understand you correctly you are saying the issue is the power and data connections. The power connections on my VHF are (IIRC) two 1/8" x1/8" stainless (?) patches an inch apart - I suppose that would be a bit big for most phones. For data blue tooth is presumably the "easy" answer for waterproofing?

No Polwart, I just get wound up a bit by an industry that clearly can make good phones and make them waterproof but doesnt because they wouldnt sell as many as fewer would be dying due to water ingress although most of my phones have packed up at around the 14-18 month mark due to other problems.

I'll keep quiet and only rant in a positive way next time.

codprawn · 02 January 2008, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

temperature is not the problem its the charge / electric fields. They will either be generating the plasma using an RF or microwave induced discharge (or one of the varients) - you wouldn't put your phone in a microwave and expect it to work afterwards.

It did actually - it was the washing machine that killed it..................

Poly · 02 January 2008, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon B

No Polwart, I just get wound up a bit by an industry that clearly can make good phones and make them waterproof but doesnt because they wouldnt sell as many as fewer would be dying due to water ingress although most of my phones have packed up at around the 14-18 month mark due to other problems.

I'll keep quiet and only rant in a positive way next time.

NO Okay - sorry that was the conclusion I had come to - I thought you had found a legitiamite reason!

GED · 02 January 2008, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugent

we had some sales rep in our place prior to xmas with some solution, name escapes me at present, think it may be Nova,
this barmy git got a std light fitting with normal 240v baynet bulb pluged it in mains sprayed solution and immersed it in bucket of water whilst still holding it, now thats faith or dam right stupid, was amazed to be shaking his hand at the end of the demo. expected to be pumping his chest instead,

there is also a vidio of a tv being sprayed with cover of, then placing in vat of water, strange watching tv under water,

seen the same on tommorrows world about 30 years ago with an electric drill, can of spray and a tank of water

codprawn · 02 January 2008, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GED

seen the same on tommorrows world about 30 years ago with an electric drill, can of spray and a tank of water

Not the same - that was just a normal coating - this is a bit higher tech than that - prob does the same job though!!!

GED · 02 January 2008, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Not the same - that was just a normal coating - this is a bit higher tech than that - prob does the same job though!!!

still, it was a brave man to pull the trigger on the drill in a tank of water

BruceB · 02 January 2008, 23:52

It is actually not as dangerous even without the coating as it may seem.
As long as he was wearing insulating soles, didn't have the other hand touching a good earth and the water was fresh water he wouldn't have been in much danger of getting much of a shock.
People work on HV equipment quite regularly, as long as the proper precautions are taken it is relatively safe

nugent · 03 January 2008, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by GED

still, it was a brave man to pull the trigger on the drill in a tank of water

i was stood 6ft from this guy, trust me i thought f#@k that, its only a job.

doggypaddle · 13 January 2008, 09:24

Trust me! water when pure is not a good conductor, in fact its a good insulator. In our laser labs water used to get used for corona suppression on 80000v pulse forming networks,
Also our sputtering magnetrons are water cooled, the water is directly in contact with the back of the target at 1000 volts, pipework is stainless with a foot of plastic tube to isolate the 1kv from the earthed tube, only a few micro amps are lost as long as the coolant is demineralised water.
I would quite happily immerse a 240 volt drill in deionised water and operate it
then again i do have a reputation for being dangerous with high voltages!

BogMonster · 14 January 2008, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggypaddle

sputtering magnetrons

what's one of them then?

Sounds like an April Fool to me but it's a bit early

doggypaddle · 14 January 2008, 12:07

Sputtering is a physical vapor deposition, PVD process whereby atoms in a solid target material are ejected into the gas phase due to bombardment of the material by energetic ions. It is commonly used for thin-film deposition, as well as analytical techniques.
The magnetron consists basically of a ring of magnets behind the target material, the target is conected to the high voltage and is in a low pressure gas atmosphere, the gas ionises forming the plasma.
there is a good explanation on wiki.