MMSI reset

[CJR]

A question and a thought ...

Question ... how do I reset the MMSI number in a Cobra F55 DSC Radio? Cobra say "the reset procedure is not available. In the past we have had requests such as yours, and we have made the decision not to distribute the reset procedure". So what do I do to reset the number that does not involve a skip?

The thought ... why all the secrecy about the reset procedure? Job protection? Jobs for the dealers?

[Solent Ranger]

Send it back to the distributor for re-programming. Or find a local dealer who has the code.

Why do you need to reset it? Unless of course you have taken it out from one boat to put in another.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

Send it back to the distributor for re-programming. Or find a local dealer who has the code.

Why do you need to reset it? Unless of course you have taken it out from one boat to put in another.

I can't believe it is this hard to reprogram an mmsi. Plenty of people change boats, sell radios etc and need to reprogram the mmsi. Why the secrecy. I know a couple of peeps on here have radios with the previous persons mmsi still in it. What does that mean for the future. Give it a couple of years and we are going to have thousands of mixed up mmsi's going round. Not very good for a system that was supposed to improve safety. Just think how much time will be wasted trying to work out who is sending that Mayday via MMSI. When I sell my boat I won't be taking the radio out and I won't be paying to reset the MMSI. If the new owner doesn't get it done because he can't be bothered, can't afford it, or just doesn't realise how long before a question of identification raises its ugly head.

Come on manufacturers give us a break, this stinks of a follow up from car radio codes and we all know how much they charge to get things done. There again in the case of car radios, your life doesn't depend on it and it doesn't matter if the car changes hands several times.

[Mark Halliday]

CJR
Its a job for a dealer or service agent.

The MMSI belongs to the vessel not the owner of the radio.

At the Coastguards, recieving a MMSI will display size, displacement and max numbers of passengers/crew.
Also, if the information is kept up to date it will also display owner details and emergency contact details (next of kin or similar).
You should only need to change the MMSI if you transfer the radio to another craft. In which case it will have been removed and a trip to a dealer will not be a problem.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

CJR
Its a job for a dealer or service agent.

The MMSI belongs to the vessel not the owner of the radio.

At the Coastguards, recieving a MMSI will display size, displacement and max numbers of passengers/crew.
Also, if the information is kept up to date it will also display owner details and emergency contact details (next of kin or similar).
You should only need to change the MMSI if you transfer the radio to another craft. In which case it will have been removed and a trip to a dealer will not be a problem.

So if I sell my boat how does the CG know that someone else has it. I must admit I am under the impression the MMSI relates to the person who has registered the radio and the boat. You pay your £20 and its like a Car tax disc. It belongs to you and the boat and your pre registered details. Anybody please feel free to say otherwise.

Therein lies my problem the system is good but not fault free. By locking the MMSI in they are creating a balckmarket. Life is expensive enough without having to pay someone £30 (I'm guessing here) to reprogram a £200 radio after you've bought a 10 K boat. Thats the reality. Everybody thinks they won't need to use the mayday facility and if they do they can use ch 16. Now that is not what GMDSS is all about. But the maufacturers locking the MMSI code in is negating a lot of the functionality of the GMDSS safety system.

Thats how I see it and I should imagine that within 2 years this problem will reared its ugly head in an emergency situation.

By the way can anybody in the know tell me how many times the GMDSS MMSI feature has been used since its inception. Very little I should imagine.

Ever since I did my course, and given the fact that I have been involved in radios for 30 years, I have been sceptical about the real world use of these new digital radios.

By the way I have a Navman 7100 with GMDSS and the only time I have got it to work was on land for a test. When used in the Solent with the RIBNET MMSI I didn't get a reply.

So come on you RIBNETers please answer me so I can justify buying my MMSI set.

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by Biggles

So if I sell my boat how does the CG know that someone else has it.

There is a change of ownership section (4) on the back of the letter (Ships Radio Validation Document) that contained the disc. It is the section that starts "N.B. Licences are NOT transferable between vessels or persons."
Also there is a form in the booklet that came with your Radio Licence. If you have discarded both of those you can amend details on line.

Originally Posted by Biggles

You pay your £20 and its like a Car tax disc. It belongs to you and the boat and your pre registered details.

The "tax disc" is a Ships Radio Licence and relates to radio equipment installed on that ship.
You presonally hold a Short Range Certificate which authorises you to opperate a licenced VHF-DSC and VHF-ONLY radio telephone station.

Originally Posted by Biggles

Therein lies my problem the system is good but not fault free. By locking the MMSI in they are creating a balckmarket. Life is expensive enough without having to pay someone £30 (I'm guessing here) to reprogram a £200 radio after you've bought a 10 K boat. Thats the reality. Everybody thinks they won't need to use the mayday facility and if they do they can use ch 16. Now that is not what GMDSS is all about. But the maufacturers locking the MMSI code in is negating a lot of the functionality of the GMDSS safety system.

The MMSI stays with the boat. If you sell the boat and want to keep the radio, the reprogramming charge is some thing you will have to live with.
Perhaps it is better to sell the radio with the boat and get a new (unprogrammed) one to fit on your replacement.

Originally Posted by Biggles

By the way can anybody in the know tell me how many times the GMDSS MMSI feature has been used since its inception. Very little I should imagine.

Sorry, no idea.

Originally Posted by Biggles

Ever since I did my course, and given the fact that I have been involved in radios for 30 years, I have been sceptical about the real world use of these new digital radios.
By the way I have a Navman 7100 with GMDSS and the only time I have got it to work was on land for a test. When used in the Solent with the RIBNET MMSI I didn't get a reply.

I imagine time will tell. I think when people become fully aware of what DSC can do it will become more accepted.
Has any one entered the Ribnet group number in their set? I am sure that if someone had recieved your call, the would have replied.
My set is 18 months old and I have still not entered any MMSIs in the "phone book". I really want to try and use it this season, it has got to be better for calling up other vessels than calling on Ch 16 and hoping you are heard over the wind and engine noise. I also want to try the position polling so I can find a friend (I think I have one somewhere) by asking their DSC to transmit their position and display it on my plotter. Very handy to know which end of Priory Bay to go to.

For Jon Brooks.
How about a DSC practical day Jon? I am sure there are many like Biggles and I who would like to try DSCs non-distress functions in a live situation. I am sure that there would be a good day on the water and a beer or 2 in it. Not that you drink, eh Jon?

[Biggles]

Just seen this on another site. So you can do it over the phone.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/printthrea...03/type/thread

Come on manufacturers come clean !!!!!

[codprawn]

Well the impression I had from my VHF course is that DSC is a load of bollocks.....

[Mark Halliday]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Just seen this on another site. So you can do it over the phone.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/printthrea...03/type/thread

Come on manufacturers come clean !!!!!

Yes it can be done, but why do it? There are times when you do need to change it, but normaly it will not be necesary.

OK lets look at cars. Your car has a registration number. You sell it, do you want to keep the plate?
If it is a special number to you then you can do it, and live with the paperwork.

Boats. If your boat has SSR registration would you try to take that to your new boat? No? Why not?

In the ybw thread the old licence had expired, and the new owner wanted to have "his own number". Ofcom may have reallocated the old number, but I bet the have not. There is not a shortage of new numbers so recycling them is probably not happening yet.

From September this year, the Ships Radio Licence will be free and be issued anualy to the registered owner, until notification of change of ownership is recieved. Hopefull this will help people think of "The boats MMSI" rather than "My MMSI"

CJR
Why do you need to change the number?
Is it a 2nd hand unit bought without a boat? Or do you think that you need your own personal MMSI?

Codprawn
Were you listening?

[Biggles]

Mark,

It would seem that you are implying that the radio is now becomeing an integral part of the boat. Therefore when you sell it you lose your MMSI that you've had for two or three years and have to go to the trouble of telling everyone the new one. No great hassle, but hassle none the less.

My issue is that on selling the boat you should be able to reset the MMSI to 00000000. Therefore the new owner has to register it before use. This could avoid said new owner getting in trouble using DSC and the CG thinking thats its you making the call, all these details are now held on computer. Does that mean your missus gets a call from the CG saying your in distress or does it mean the CG can't work out who they are helping.

The way I look at it, there is potential for a quite serious problem here. the only way round it at the moment is to treat your MMSI and radio docs like a vehicles V5. How many people do that. As I said there are people on here with other peoples MMSIs. Just check the MMSI numbers on the side details on RIBNET.

[codprawn]

Yes I was listening and I fully agree with Biggles....

[wavelength]

The boat we brought back from Ireland last year for its new owner had the mmsi 123456789- hmmm I dont think so, we reset that after talking to the uk agents who said take it to a local stockist, when we said there wasnt one the answer was get a pen and paper and note down these codes. The radio cleared itself with no probs with these codes entered.

Well the impression I had from my VHF course is that DSC is a load of bollocks

you do surprise me. I wonder if that was down to the instructor or the pupil. Dsc is handy for calling the other boat who is steaming and who wouldnt hear that the radio call is for him just by voice. The group call lets our boat club members "page" all the other club boats afloat for a bit of help. The mayday button would grab all those radios belonging to our local inshore fishermen and anglers who never ever listen to ch16 but use certain other channels to natter on constantly all day.
As far as a day demo-ing the calls it should have been done on the dsc course but we do it between the boats on all boat courses whenever practical just to show how it actually works at sea. We have even had the Coastguard MRSC call us up to ask if he could test his dsc with us, with the added comment that I know your mmsi cos its on the system.

[codprawn]

The reason I didn't like my VHF course is because too much time was spent teaching people how to enter MMSI numbers etc - anyone who has used a mobile phone can grasp that p[art in a few minutes. What we DID need was more actual practice of radio speak and actually talking to people. It was NOT the fault of the coastguard bloke running the course.

[Solent Ranger]

Originally Posted by codprawn

It was NOT the fault of the coastguard bloke running the course.

Then who's fault is it? The syllabus does not spend loads of time "teaching" people how to load MMSI numbers. It should have been that almost the entire afternoon was given over to role play - using real radios. Making Mayday calls, both via DSC and normal and also interaction between students in interactive calls. I spend about 10 mins (if that!) talking about loading MMSI numbers. Each radio requires a different protocol to enter MMSI numbers into the directory. I also say to students - RTFM!

The object of the course is to demonstrate a level of competency in how to use a VHF marine DSC radio, and how to determine what call to make in the appropriate situation.



Mind you, if the class size is large, then it is very difficult to get enough time for each student on the radio. One of the reasons we keep class sizes down. We also have 5 radios so in many cases, that is a radio per student. At worst its 2 per set. We also do not use the old computer simualtor anymore.

The strict regulations say that the course should be 8 hours and that 15 mins per additional student over 8 should be added (to a maximum of 12). Large classes are, IMHO, not a great way of doing things. I have run class sizes of 12 in the past - I don't do it now. 8 is the maximum I will do, with 6 being preferred. OK, so we charge more, but what value do you get if you come away feeling you've not had sufficient time on making calls? By the sound of it, you feel you were robbed!!

[Mark Halliday]

Biggles

I understand what you are saying. I hate paperwork too.

What I am trying to say (badly) is that the MMSI should not be thought of as yours, but the boats, like its call sign. After all the MMSI is in effect just an electronic call sign.
The reason I think for retaining the MMSI with the boat is as follows.
You flog your 4M Searider and buy codder's monster and take your MMSI with you.
You then, unfortunatly, have to make a Mayday call. You only have time to hit the red button before the batteries die. You are close under high cliffs, and your handheld can "see" a CG antenna.
The coastguard recieve a DSC distress call that a 4m with a maximum of 4 persons needs assistance and the task the local ILB.
The ILB arrives to find a swamped 7.5M boat with 12 people swimming around it. By the time the nearest Arun class life boat has been tasked and arrived, 8 of those 12 have perrished.

Extreem, I know. But that is the down side of what you are proposing.

[Doug Stormforce]

MMSIs like Callsigns have always been registered to the boat not the individual.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

Then who's fault is it? The syllabus does not spend loads of time "teaching" people how to load MMSI numbers. It should have been that almost the entire afternoon was given over to role play - using real radios. Making Mayday calls, both via DSC and normal and also interaction between students in interactive calls. I spend about 10 mins (if that!) talking about loading MMSI numbers. Each radio requires a different protocol to enter MMSI numbers into the directory. I also say to students - RTFM!

The strict regulations say that the course should be 8 hours and that 15 mins per additional student over 8 should be added (to a maximum of 12). Large classes are, IMHO, not a great way of doing things. I have run class sizes of 12 in the past - I don't do it now. 8 is the maximum I will do, with 6 being preferred. OK, so we charge more, but what value do you get if you come away feeling you've not had sufficient time on making calls? By the sound of it, you feel you were robbed!!

Maybe I was just unlucky in having some slow witted people on the course who have never been on a boat and have no intention of getting one either - why the hell do such people come along? They can't have been paying for themselves.....

The coastguard bloke said he would far rather have had 2 days. The class size was about 12 but we all had Silva radios linked together etc.

There was a commercial fisherman on the course who had been forced to pass an exam after being caught using his radio with no paperwork. He pointed out that the prob with DSC radios is that people just switch them off to stop all the beeping noises - tends to defeat the object somewhat.

Also even in the classroom people were struggling to read out the MMSI number over the air in the mayday calls - not exactly easy in a real situation.

The fisherman had actually used his radio in an emergency - basically he only just had time to scream help before his boat went down - he didn't exactly bother scrolling through the list of distress type calls to find the right one.

I know a few people who have taken to using their hand helds in preference to their main sets because they don't have DSC.....

[Dave B]

Why do we have to so intolerant of one another all the time? Some people are very quick at picking up subjects and some are not as good and some are incapable of grasping anything at all, but all deserve to be given the best chance possible and in particular the GMDSS system, Should we only train and protect the people who are our academic successes like codprawn after all persons of lower intellect can drive a rib at the same speed and make the same death defying turns. If he who has a lower IQ has a misfortune at sea should he only be allowed to use the voice procedure, I don’t think so.

It is the fault of the instructor or the training school for not selecting the group a little better, During the time I ran the SRC courses I had no problems and indeed found that new kids on the block fared better than the experienced up graders. On one occasion I ran a coarse for one man who had problems reading and writing, at the end of 8 hours we had a max score pass (the exam was verbal) and had devised a bridge card he could understand and use. Time well spent and I went of home having enjoyed the time spent. Another course was for crew of a lifeboat, not interested really, may be I should just write out the certs and go home, NO we don’t do that so the course over ran but all passed in the end. So if anybody gets on to a course that is slow going be patient it could be the slow witted man that pulls you out of the water after answering the DSC alert on his sparkly new radio.

A good thing though to take the SRC course codprawn, after all some people say that anything can fall off a Prosport

[wavelength]

What we DID need was more actual practice of radio speak and actually talking to people

so why wasnt it done - as said earlier on this thread all radios have their own way of entering msi numbers etc and it is not something I would have anyone do on a course-whats the point. After all it is a radio course to use voice on a radio with the added advantage of dsc when appropriate. Radio courses can be (and should be) great fun and if people are have a laugh they learn as well- heaven help anyone sitting thru an hour or so of entering mmsi numbers. Mind you occasionally everyone gets a candidate they wish they hadnt booked onto a course But not in this instance I'm sure

[Solent Ranger]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Maybe I was just unlucky in having some slow witted people on the course who have never been on a boat and have no intention of getting one either - why the hell do such people come along? They can't have been paying for themselves.....

It again begs the question, where did you go and do it?

The fisherman had actually used his radio in an emergency - basically he only just had time to scream help before his boat went down - he didn't exactly bother scrolling through the list of distress type calls to find the right one.

The course makes (or should) that only "if there is time" do you select the nature of the distress! While on courses, I do say use the distress menu, I make it clear that in a real situation then common sense should prevail!!!

As Wavelength has already said, the SRC course should be fun as much as a practical learning experience. Loading MMSI numbers every time is going to send the students mad (not to mention the assessor!! ) - so as I said earlier I don't get em putting them in.

The Silvas are great training radios,IMHO better than any others. But if you get trained on ICOMS the protocol is different. We cannot be expected to be able to have every single set converted, so why bugger around teaching somebody the finer points of inputting stuff when they have a Cobra, or a some other such set where the method is different.

I know a few people who have taken to using their hand helds in preference to their main sets because they don't have DSC.....

Not sure I understand what you are saying here! Do you mean they don't have a fixed VHF or do you mean they don't have a fixed DSC radio? I'd still rather use a standard fixed VHF in place of a H/H any day. Very few DSC H/H were in distribution and in any case, they would only transmit the "Distress" alert - nothing more. And they would also only do so if attached, via it's cradle, to the GPS for regular positioning updates.

Sounds too me as if you should go and resit the course, clearly you are concerned that you are feeling inadequately prepared.