Mounting LSS-1 Structure Scan Transducer

[ncp]

I'm really interested in getting Structure scan but don't want to invest if it's not going to work well. I've done some poking around but can't seem to find proper mounting suggestion. Anyone have pics?

Willard 7.3m
1. Diesel i/o with Konrad leg: mounting on transom left/right, does this create a "shadow on the other side?
2. water intake: port side a couple of feet up from the transom, would this create turbulence mounting on the port side transom?
3. exhaust: starboard side just below waterline, would this create too many bubble disturbing the picture?
4. boat is on a trailer...do I avoid all thru-hulls too?

The best option would be two transom mounts....but then the trailer issue comes up. Price would be an issue too! Hope to avoid this (and probably wouldn't buy then).

Anyone had success? Am I overthinking this?

Thanks!

[jyasaki]

1) wouldn't think so. Unit still shoots pretty much straight down.

2) Probably not.

3) might.

4) Why? As long as you have a thru-hull that doesn't hit a bunk or roller, it's not an issue. Same's true for a transom mount (since you didn't number that one.)

Sounds like you are overthinking. What is your current transducer mounting situation?

jky

[ncp]

jky, I need your opinion (again!)

Since, my dash is finally going in, I'm ready to start mounting transducers (I was hoping to do it before the opening of lobster season Friday night, but I don't think that I'll make it). I need to choose a location for the LSS-1 and then I can mount the P79 in close proximity to it (I already checked various locations withing the hull, the P79 shoots through wonderfully).

As for #1, above, the LSS-1 shoots almost 180 degrees. The closer that I get to the keel line, the less "shadowing" I will have.

#2 Better picture now...could cause problems if the transducer is right behind it.

Ok, where to mount??? Waterline is at Grey/Black line and even though I only listed options 1-5, below, I guess I could even go one chine out on either side though that would significantly increase the "shadowing" effect.

#1 Outside left chine - Pros: away from prop (LH rotating), away from raw water intake Cons: Most shadow! The right side will be pretty heavily shadowed

#2 Inside left chine - Pros: Very little shadowing to the right side Cons: Just to the left of the raw water pickup. What kind of "wake" will the raw water pickup make? How wide at the transom?

#3 On keell ine, under outdrive - Pros: No shadow!!! Cons: On the right edge or the "wake" from the raw water pickup, I would have to tweak the mounting bracket a touch for the limited vertical space, closer to the exhaust

#4 Inside right chine - Pros: same as #2 Cons: Right in the exhaust! (I may have to dive the boat again while it's in neutral to see if the bubble go that low

#5 Outside right chine - Cons: Same as #1 and closer to exhaust (depth and horizontal proximity)

Any input would be wonderful! I am waiting on mounting my P79 until I know where this transducer is going.

[jyasaki]

Geez; you're asking stuff that I can only guess at...

But, my choices would be (in order): 2, 1, 5, 3, 4 with a few caveats.

2 will require a test to see if the raw water intake affects the flow.

1 should work OK (how much structure do you need to see next to the boat, anyway?)

3 and 4 will need testing to see how much the exhaust and prop affects the signal.

5 has the little flap looking thingie which I have no idea on function. Position should be OK though.

Any chace you can temporarily mount the thing to a board or something and clamp it to the transom to test out what works and what doesn't?

Have to realize I have zero experience with the LSS-1 ducer. I'm going by normal transducer theory.


Luck;

jky

[ncp]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Geez; you're asking stuff that I can only guess at.

But you still have more experience than I do!

As for testing, I would love to come up for a way to test mount it. I just don't know of a way to clamp it or of an adhesive which is strong enough (and easily removable). While testing the P79 (future inhull traditional transducer), I held it over the side to get a baseline before putting in the bilge (in a plastic bag full of water) and just holding in over the edge at idle was tough. The adhesive or clamp would have to be strong! We'll see if anyone has any suggestion for that!

I agree, #2 is my favorite spot. I wish someone would be able to tell the width of the "wake" created by that intake based on the size of the intake (PERKO Inc. - Underwater Hardware - Scoop Strainer) and the speed of the boat!

The "flap" that you are seeing look like a previous transducer (it says Humminbird). Also the Navy epoxied in an in-hull.

Let me know when you are in town for a dive!

[jyasaki]

But you still have more experience than I do!

Well, I've got one person fooled, anyway...


Don't think the "wake" is an issue. You need clean water (i.e. water with no bubbles.) Hard to compress water, so any non-aerated water is pretty much the same.

As far as a temp mount, bolt the thing to a 2x4 and clamp/strap/(stay away from bolts) however you can hold it in place. All you need is to be able to keep the ducer at a particular height and offset for the few seconds it takes to see how it works.


And I may take you up on bug dives (though I suck at it.)

jky

[Troy]

Hi guys, I will take some photos of my setup next week, I'm away at the moment. I mounted mine on the keel forward of transom, I don't have a Konrad drive with intake but I think you will like it.
I have the HDS10 gen 2 with all the bells and whistles.
Give me until Thursday.
Troy

[Peter_C]

From what my instructions on my Garmin chartplotter/depth sounder said, with a normal rotating prop, you want the transducer on the starboard side due to prop turbulence. Which would mean around #5. I have also read that 15" away from the outdrive works fine too, but have no confirmation. Looks like your bunk occasionally extends past the transom. I have seen bunks rip expensive components off of boats before, and have also seen boats put on trailers slightly off center landing incorrectly on the bunks, so be careful and know where your boat lands on the trailer "every time". What is the bracket near #5 used for?

Google is always your friend, and there are many more than what I posted below.

Transducer Location Solved! Update 4/17/2012 : Engines and Electronics
Transducer Placement-Transducer Location-Transducer Mount-High speed-Side Scan-Down Scan-Side Imaging-Structure Scan

Plus it never hurts to contact tech support sending them a photo of your boat and asking for recommendations.

Hmmm...having the ability to find dive sites by looking at a "picture" sure would be nice. Blows away Blue Charts, and a regular depth sounder.

I like the aluminum trailer BTW I will probably build one for my next boat.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Peter_C

I like the aluminum trailer BTW I will probably build one for my next boat.

Read up on the Florida guys with aluminum trailers, especially for smaller boats. You may end up having to bolt lead or steel to it to prevent the wheels from floating it when recovering (and, I suppose, after launching.)

jky

[ncp]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Don't think the "wake" is an issue. You need clean water (i.e. water with no bubbles.) Hard to compress water, so any non-aerated water is pretty much the same.

I didn't mean wake in the literal sense, more that whatever disturbance the raw water scoop makes, it's going to spread out and be wider at the transom that the actual width of the scoop.

Originally Posted by jyasaki

As far as a temp mount, bolt the thing to a 2x4 and clamp/strap/(stay away from bolts) however you can hold it in place. All you need is to be able to keep the ducer at a particular height and offset for the few seconds it takes to see how it works.

Now you have me thinking...use wood screws to put the transducer on a 2x4 or something a bit thinner, stuff it down between the swim step and the transom so it doesn't move and try it out.

Originally Posted by jyasaki

And I may take you up on bug dives (though I suck at it.)

Anytime! Season opener this weekend and I'm stuck in LA because my girlfriend bought tickets to some concert for Saturday night...not too excited by it.

Originally Posted by Troy

Hi guys, I will take some photos of my setup next week, I'm away at the moment. I mounted mine on the keel forward of transom, I don't have a Konrad drive with intake but I think you will like it.
I have the HDS10 gen 2 with all the bells and whistles.
Give me until Thursday.
Troy

Thanks Troy. I can't really tell from your picture where your transducer is but I would love to see pics. I wish they would have done the water scoop and the exhaust on the same side...it would have made things easier.

Originally Posted by Peter_C

From what my instructions on my Garmin chartplotter/depth sounder said, with a normal rotating prop, you want the transducer on the starboard side due to prop turbulence. Which would mean around #5. I have also read that 15" away from the outdrive works fine too, but have no confirmation. Looks like your bunk occasionally extends past the transom. I have seen bunks rip expensive components off of boats before, and have also seen boats put on trailers slightly off center landing incorrectly on the bunks, so be careful and know where your boat lands on the trailer "every time". What is the bracket near #5 used for?

Correct, with a RH rotating prop #5 would be a good choice. That little bracket in the #5 location says Hummingbird on it. It was there when I got the boat (there is also a Garmin transom mount transducer epoxied into the hull too). Both were left over from the Navy.

This drive had LH rotation, so I guess #1 would be the better choice then. But, I'd like to get it as low and as close to the center as possible to the raw water pickup and the drive to avoid a large shadow on the right hand side of the screen. Remember, this LSS-1 transducer scans a very wide swath (not ~180 image, but that's the goal when thinking of the mounting angles. It's more like 120 to 130 degrees http://bassfisher1.zoomshare.com/fil...ngle_Chart.pdf)

Originally Posted by Peter_C

From what my instructions on my Garmin chartplotter/depth sounder said, with a normal rotating prop, you want the transducer on the starboard side due to prop turbulence. Which would mean around #5. I have also read that 15" away from the outdrive works fine too, but have no confirmation. Looks like your bunk occasionally extends past the transom. I have seen bunks rip expensive components off of boats before, and have also seen boats put on trailers slightly off center landing incorrectly on the bunks, so be careful and know where your boat lands on the trailer "every time". What is the bracket near #5 used for?

Google is always your friend, and there are many more than what I posted below.

Transducer Location Solved! Update 4/17/2012 : Engines and Electronics
Transducer Placement-Transducer Location-Transducer Mount-High speed-Side Scan-Down Scan-Side Imaging-Structure Scan

Funny, I have also heard that which side you should mount on depends on the rotation of the prop. Sternmate (link #2) doesn't seem to think so! same thing with the 15" rule.(since I wrote this sequentially, I actually agreed with those rules, above, and said the left side would be better because of the prop rotation)

Bunk overhang: True, it's not much but it's there. I will take into account the bunks and try to go as far away as possible from them. Maybe by getting a Sternsaver, I can move the bracket out and the 1/2 in overhang wouldn't be an issue anymore.

Thanks for the links. I hadn't seen those. I've mostly been reading different forums (this and others).

Originally Posted by Peter_C

Plus it never hurts to contact tech support sending them a photo of your boat and asking for recommendations.

Hmmm...having the ability to find dive sites by looking at a "picture" sure would be nice. Blows away Blue Charts, and a regular depth sounder.

I like the aluminum trailer BTW I will probably build one for my next boat.

I may try emailing tech support and seeing what they have to say. I have most of the email written already since I've posted this here (and on another forum. The best feedback so far has been from rib.net, of course!!!)

Yes, that's my goal. Dive sites, structure to go find lobster in, being able to circle a paddy and see what is schooling underneath, etc. I'm looking forward to it!

Thanks! I got a decent price on the trailer because it because the frame was already built and sitting around. it was on $800 more than what they wanted for a custom galvanized!

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Read up on the Florida guys with aluminum trailers, especially for smaller boats. You may end up having to bolt lead or steel to it to prevent the wheels from floating it when recovering (and, I suppose, after launching.)

Don't have that problem! The Cummins alone is 1100 lbs!!!

[Troy]

Ouch, that's a heavy engine! My Steyr comes in at about 300ish Kg ( about 660 lb ).
The Aussie boats use Steyr and yanmar.

[Troy]

My Alu trailer is 450Kg...I can't even move it let alone float the bloody thing!

[ncp]

Originally Posted by Troy

Ouch, that's a heavy engine! My Steyr comes in at about 300ish Kg ( about 660 lb ). The Aussie boats use Steyr and yanmar.

That's a question for the US Navy on why they chose the Cummins/Konrad setup. From what I have read, somewhere ~1999-2000, the US Navy switched the ribs from Volvo/Duoprop to Cummins/Konrad. The Volvos just couldn't take the load. So, I'm guessing the Cummins/Konrad was a durability choice. Also, they chose durability over performance. The 5.9L block comes in variations from 140-370hp depending on turbo/aftercooler/fuel pump tuning. The 180hp is turbo charged and "continuous duty" meaning that they can run at WOT for 6 hrs at a time.

Yes, a 315 hp Yanmar would be nice... And it's 200 lbs less than my engine!

Originally Posted by Troy

My Alu trailer is 450Kg...I can't even move it let alone float the bloody thing!

+1

I gave my trailer fabricator a hard time - there is a wheel on the tongue jack of my trailer. I couldn't move the thing by hand if I tried!

I think that we're getting off topic here but since I started the thread and am adding to it, I think we're ok!

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by ncp

I didn't mean wake in the literal sense, more that whatever disturbance the raw water scoop makes, it's going to spread out and be wider at the transom that the actual width of the scoop.

Right. What I'm saying is that as long as the water is not aerated, it shouldn't be a problem. Speed doesn't matter (I think), not does water moving at different speeds.

Now you have me thinking...use wood screws to put the transducer on a 2x4 or something a bit thinner, stuff it down between the swim step and the transom so it doesn't move and try it out.

Thought I said that.

Anytime! Season opener this weekend and I'm stuck in LA because my girlfriend bought tickets to some concert for Saturday night...not too excited by it.

Later in the season at the very earliest. Just bought my Mom's house from my siblings; gotta see if I can actually afford it now.

Don't have that problem! The Cummins alone is 1100 lbs!!!

Problem is when the trailer is unloaded. The wheels hold a bunch of air, and if the trailer is light enough, they'll float the back end.

jky

[ncp]

I had thought about this and the discounted the idea....

anyone mounted lss-1 like this?? - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

5200 to the keel!!!

[jyasaki]

Take pics of whatever you end up deciding to do.

jky

[ncp]

I don't know yet...it seems that I'd get the best picture that way out of the device. And, there are plenty of threads on tht that say you can remove 5200 with some heat, chemicals, and a putty knife.

Very tempted....

Won't happen this weekend. Catalina bound...I'll have to live with just the P79.