Need a new Fixed VHF

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by office888

AIS transceivers these days are a lot cheaper than radar. They guarantee visibility so you don't get run over by a container ship or tanker (my biggest fear in Charleston!).

Just cos they can see you does not guarantee they won't run you over they just assume your smaller and will get out of the way that is if there actually looking
Best option is keep the hell out of the way of big ships

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Best option is keep the hell out of the way of big ships

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji106]

[Poly]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Just cos they can see you does not guarantee they won't run you over they just assume your smaller and will get out of the way that is if there actually looking
Best option is keep the hell out of the way of big ships

and you have no idea if you might be about to hit another small powerboat or yacht without AIS - potentially they lead to a false sense of security that encourage people to proceed in poor vis thinking they have something that is essentially radar when it is not.

[j.i.wilson]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Just cos they can see you does not guarantee they won't run you over they just assume your smaller and will get out of the way that is if there actually looking
Best option is keep the hell out of the way of big ships

You are missing the point. As I said in my earlier message, I think it's wise to carry a receiver on small craft, NOT necessarily a transmitter. With a receiver only you will not be broadcasting AIS info so no one will see it. The point is YOU see the bigger stuff and keep out of the way.

[j.i.wilson]

Originally Posted by Poly

and you have no idea if you might be about to hit another small powerboat or yacht without AIS - potentially they lead to a false sense of security that encourage people to proceed in poor vis thinking they have something that is essentially radar when it is not.

This type of argument is often offered as a reason not to have something - the fault lies with the idiot who navigates his boat unsafely. It is NOT the fault of the equipment. The logical conclusion of the argument is to take away all safety kit in the belief that this will make the idiot navigate more safely. Yea right!!!

[Daniel]

Anyone who things they could find time to read AIS data from a chartplotter on a 4m boat has never done a passage on a 4m boat !

[Daniel]

And AIS is no substitute for radar weather it's cheaper or not. They don't achieve the same thing... And if anyone suggests a radar on a 4m boat I'll shoot myself.

[willk]

Originally Posted by j.i.wilson

You are missing the point. As I said in my earlier message, I think it's wise to carry a receiver on small craft, NOT necessarily a transmitter....

I think you may be missing a trick yourself - Beamish was replying to Office (as per his quotes) who had recommended TX. His comment was not addressed to you nor was it contradictory to your post.

Between the people who can't format quotes and the people who won't read them, this forum is sinking by the stern....

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by beamishken

......
Best option is keep the hell out of the way of big ships

[emoji106]COLREGS section 2 para 1.a states

....Notwithstanding your perceived right of way, big always wins.....[emoji57]

[beamishken]

Some of the comments on this thread remind me of the recent story of a Humber pilot who got ran over whilst using an ipad trying to navigate the Humber estuary .A definite case of being misled into thinking your safe because you have navigation aids when actually your far from safe

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Some of the comments on this thread remind me of the recent story of a Humber pilot who got ran over whilst using an ipad trying to navigate the Humber estuary .A definite case of being misled into thinking your safe because you have navigation aids when actually your far from safe

[emoji106] well said lad.

[office888]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Just cos they can see you does not guarantee they won't run you over they just assume your smaller and will get out of the way that is if there actually looking
Best option is keep the hell out of the way of big ships

Absolutely. It's added safety though. I operate at night, and RIBs don't present much of a radar signature. If my engine dies in the middle of the bay entry, I'd rather have it than not. Stand on vessel or not, it is the responsibility of both captains to avoid a collision.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by office888

Absolutely. It's added safety though. I operate at night, and RIBs don't present much of a radar signature. If my engine dies in the middle of the bay entry, I'd rather have it than not. Stand on vessel or not, it is the responsibility of both captains to avoid a collision.

This sort of scenario is often quoted as a reason for additional kit. It certainly happens (the engine dies bit), yet I've never heard or read of a single case where a collision between a small vessel with minimum radar signature has occurred because it is disabled in a channel and a big boat steamed over it.

I've always taken the view that my lights & VHF were there to help in such situations. A secuirte message would seem highly appropriate in a circumstance where you have stopped mid-channel to try and resolve an issue. While VHF is not a recommended method of avoiding collision either, I suspect a ship coming along a channel hearing a securite message is more likely to take notice of it than either a tiny radar target or an AIS target which he can see is a small boat and assumes you will shift because he has read Pikey's version of the Col Regs. AFAIK Class B AIS doesn't have settings to say "vessel not under command" so other than activating a CPA alert which will get cancelled with a mutter of "pesky leisure sailors" I'm not clear how AIS will make you safer rather than make you feel safer.

**BUT** please do get AIS Tx, it makes it so much easier for the MAIB to unpick what happened in the final minutes and that always makes for interesting reading.

[Pikey Dave]

AIS, VHF, GPS, RADAR, Plotter are all "Aids" to navigation & just that, aids. They are tools to assist, they aren't substitutes for knowledge, experience & the mk1 eyeball. As with any job, having (and knowing how to use) the correct tools can make the job easier, more pleasurable & produce a better result. It is however, just as easy to come a cropper through the incorrect use of AtN as it is through the incorrect use of a chainsaw.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by j.i.wilson

This type of argument is often offered as a reason not to have something - the fault lies with the idiot who navigates his boat unsafely. It is NOT the fault of the equipment. The logical conclusion of the argument is to take away all safety kit in the belief that this will make the idiot navigate more safely. Yea right!!!

The phenomenon of risk compensation is well known and widely reported. I'd suggest the fact that you are suggesting AIS makes it safer in poor vis is demonstration of that - you haven't explained how you will avoid all the other craft that don't have AIS Tx installed or working.

Originally Posted by Daniel

Anyone who things they could find time to read AIS data from a chartplotter on a 4m boat has never done a passage on a 4m boat !

Actually its not just the time (you can gain some time by slowing down!), the reality is most 4m boats are going to have a small chartplotter, with a lot of information cluttered on it, likely mounted in the space that was available rather than perfect ergonomics, and in all but the calmest conditions a 4m boat is rolling around - even reading the chartplotter on a nice day can be challenging.

Originally Posted by office888

Absolutely. It's added safety though. I operate at night, and RIBs don't present much of a radar signature. If my engine dies in the middle of the bay entry, I'd rather have it than not. Stand on vessel or not, it is the responsibility of both captains to avoid a collision.

So would an active radar reflector be. I'm not saying don't get one, I just think for most leisure ribbers, especially at the small end of the boat spectrum, you gain little (and potentially assume AIS will do what you expect so spend your time trying to fix the engine* rather than calling VTS etc to warn of the issue).

* out of interest every time you turn the key to try and recrank the engine does the AIS stop transmitting? Does it reset and have some period of warm up where it needs to get data from GPS etc? I know my VHF power cycles due to the voltage drop of cranking the engine.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Poly

* out of interest every time you turn the key to try and recrank the engine does the AIS stop transmitting? Does it reset and have some period of warm up where it needs to get data from GPS etc? I know my VHF power cycles due to the voltage drop of cranking the engine.

Ahem! 2 batteries, "cough cough"

[beamishken]

[QUOTE=Poly;743037]The phenomenon of risk compensation is well known and widely reported. I'd suggest the fact that you are suggesting AIS makes it safer in poor vis is demonstration of that - you haven't explained how you will avoid all the other craft that don't have AIS Tx installed or working.

Surely avoiding the none mobile hazards is equally important in poor vis
I doubt ais will help avoid rocks reefs piers groins etc etc
Personally I think ais is more suited to slow boats making passage as it gives the opportunity to plan which way you pass another vessel well ahead
It's use on a small rib is limited in my opinion more novelty value that essential safety equipment

[Iron Dials]

2 points

1) The OP just wants to know what radios are reliable and what to avoid. Very few people complain about Icom and mine worked fine.

2) All info is good when developing situational awareness.
To argue that you are no safer knowing where some of the traffic around is, instead of none of it, doesn't make sense to me.

[Poly]

Ok
Gt to q zip pocket v

[j.i.wilson]

Amazed at some contributions. In what world is it better to know LESS about the potential hazards around you???