Position of radar reflector

[DJL]

Well all the data I have seen puts the performance of the standard Trilens well below that of the Echomax EM230. Furthermore only the large Trilens meets ISO8729 (not sure about RORC or ORC) - where as the EM230 does and is significantly smaller and lighter.

Do Trilens publish polar diagrams for any of their reflectors?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by DJL

Well all the data I have seen puts the performance of the standard Trilens well below that of the Echomax EM230. Furthermore only the large Trilens meets ISO8729 (not sure about RORC or ORC) - where as the EM230 does and is significantly smaller and lighter.

Do Trilens publish polar diagrams for any of their reflectors?

They had them in the mag tests - YM or PBO or similar. Don't get me wrong - I am not saying the trilens will outperform the Echomax - just that it is the best one around for it's compact size - excluding the SeeMe of course!!!

[Alex Brown]

I haven't seen Firdell Blipper being mentioned here yet

It may not be cheap, but you can get a stainless bracket for it which holds it in place too. Unfortunately, the stainless screws that hold the bracket onto its base lost their thread in some rough weather, so I had it welded to its base and now the thing is solid as a rock.

I personally wouldn't get an aerial the same height as the reflector and put it right next to it since it will have some effect on the transmission/reception (I'm sure this was discussed sometime back). Fine, probably if it was in the haven, then no one will notice, but for example, if I'm 20miles offshore at the Smalls, I'd want to ensure that the aerials are much higher to get all round reception without anything in their way.

-Alex

[codprawn]

That's because it's another dustbin......

[CJL]

Originally Posted by Solent Ranger

Because it's not a toy!

It does not look that bad.

Why did you choose an orange one?? It looks a bit silly on a white and blue boat.

I just can't help wondering the guy in the shop ran out of white ones and palmed you of with an orange one until he got more stock in!!


WHY???

[Solent Ranger]

Originally Posted by CJL

Why did you choose an orange one?? It looks a bit silly on a white and blue boat.

I just can't help wondering the guy in the shop ran out of white ones and palmed you of with an orange one until he got more stock in!!


WHY???

That is another issue!!! You could be right!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

The echomax is great but not that easy to mount on a RIB - have a look at the Viking Trilens - looks really cool and is very effective as well.....

So we’ve established that the Echomax is easy to fit and in the absence of any real evidence to the contrary Trilens is less effective, the only question left is about appearance (bling bling bling)
I can not understand why you would buy anything that would compromise function for form. Your argument in support of Trilens is entirely counter to the argument you use in support of Land Rovers where function is paramount and never compromised for form.
Trilens might look like a UFO (quote cp) but if it doesn’t work as effectively as it should you might as well not fit it

[roycruse]

You are forgetting 2 very practical reasons not to go for echomax.

1. The shear size of it - would prevent it being fitted to alot of ribs - mine included - my a-frame is full of other kit.

2. fitted next to an antenna - it will greatly reduce radio reception and transmition in that direction.

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by roycruse

...1. The shear size of it - would prevent it being fitted to alot of ribs ....

It isn’t that big, it fits happily on a 100mm square and you could argue that the smaller the boat the bigger the reflector should be

Originally Posted by roycruse

2. fitted next to an antenna - it will greatly reduce radio reception and transmition in that direction.

There is no evidence for this:- a)they work on different frequencies b)the reflector is only 400mm high where the aerial is a 1000mm and c)because an aerial radiates around 360 degrees the reflector could at the most shield only 20 or 30 degrees, if it has any effect at all. Des

[Simon Hawkins]

I have an Echomax fitted to the top of my A-Frame. I constantly use the VHF, and have also tested the reception and transmit next to another boat with same VHF and Arial without any differnce. I am not an expert on VHF transmission and reception but can safely say that I did not encounter any differences between the two craft.


Simon

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

It isn’t that big, it fits happily on a 100mm square and you could argue that the smaller the boat the bigger the reflector should be

Wheres it going to fit then ???

Originally Posted by Scary Des

There is no evidence for this

Theres no evidence against it either.

Originally Posted by Scary Des

the reflector is only 400mm high where the aerial is a 1000mm

Eh

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by roycruse

Wheres it going to fit then ???

Oh sorry didn’t realise you didn’t have a proper A frame I’m sure that if you really want one you could fabricate a bracket that would fit one off to one side. Incidentally you wouldn’t fit a Trilens on there either

Originally Posted by roycruse

Eh

The picture you show isn’t my aerial, I have a half wavelength one which to be precise is 950mm. Des

[roycruse]

I dont realy want a trilense either - as I see little point for a radar reflector in the first place, but if I wanted to fit one - it would go very nicely under the a-frame where the echomax would be too large and get in the way of the engine.

"proper A frame" - cheeky bugger - thats a beutifully crafted 2" diameter 'ard as nails wakeboarding tow frame that cost twice as much as a standard frame. but admitedly not the best for mounting radar reflectors.

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by roycruse

.....as I see little point for a radar reflector in the first place ........

I find that strange because judging by other comments you’ve made you come across as Mr cautious and anything to limit your risk should be right up your street
In my opinion radar reflectors help people to see you and possible avoid you or warn you of there presence additionally they also help people to find you
What’s your view on flares great if they look nice but a no no if they take up too much room Des

[roycruse]

I carry a pack of mini flares plus a selection of parachutes and smokes.

I carry a backup handheld GPS.

I carry a backup handheld VHF.

I do think there should be laws that make sure that people at sea are prepared and able to handle their boats and that the boats the selves are seaworthy.

I think radar reflectors are way over the top. - I make a habit of knowing whats going on around me and don't feel the need to show up on a ships screen that is never going to have to avoid me. The only time I ever feel I would need a radar reflector is if I had complete electrical and engine failure in a shipping lane in Fog or at Night. The day/night that that happens I will think back to this thread and think to myself "I wish I had listened to Des". But for now completely rearranging my A-frames electronics or welding extra bits on to it etc etc is way too much hassle when I feel the benefit of the end result is minimal - and yes I do care how my RIB looks - like most other people do - other wise why would you get offered colour choice etc when buying the things in the first place. In fact even the echomax people manufacture it in 3 colours, why, that serves no function. If a radar reflector was small easy to fit and sensibly priced and wouldn't get in the way of everything else on my boat - I would fit one.
As for thinking I'm cautious you should see me drive my RIB

The way I do things and the decisions and opinions I have are not always considered conventional - but they feel right to me - and I can always give reasons for my decisions as they are thought out and well considered and never because that's just what someone else thinks.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by roycruse

I do think there should be laws that make sure that people at sea are prepared and able to handle their boats and that the boats the selves are seaworthy.

Judging by this and other of your posts, you certainly seem to be a man for wanting laws.

I think radar reflectors are way over the top.

..but you are prepared to ignore them when you feel like it.

The way I do things and the decisions and opinions I have are not always considered conventional - but they feel right to me -

..me Lud.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

So we’ve established that the Echomax is easy to fit and in the absence of any real evidence to the contrary Trilens is less effective, the only question left is about appearance (bling bling bling)
I can not understand why you would buy anything that would compromise function for form. Your argument in support of Trilens is entirely counter to the argument you use in support of Land Rovers where function is paramount and never compromised for form.
Trilens might look like a UFO (quote cp) but if it doesn’t work as effectively as it should you might as well not fit it

If there was a MAJOR difference in performance then you would be right - in the tests I saw there wasn't and in certain situations the trilens was MORE effective.

Anyway the bigger the better so by your reasoning you should fit the biggest Echomax they make!!!

I agree there is no point in fitting something that isn't going to work properly which is why I have avoided most of the other reflectors.

Of course the ultimate has to be the SeeMe and it is small and looks great - shame about the £450 price tag!!!

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Judging by this and other of your posts, you certainly seem to be a man for wanting laws.
..but you are prepared to ignore them when you feel like it...me Lud.

What are you suggesting/implying

[Simon Hawkins]

Originally Posted by roycruse

I carry a pack of mini flares plus a selection of parachutes and smokes.

I carry a backup handheld GPS.

I carry a backup handheld VHF.

I do think there should be laws that make sure that people at sea are prepared and able to handle their boats and that the boats the selves are seaworthy.

I think radar reflectors are way over the top. -.

You certianly have the correct kit for safety on the sea, but how effective would the flares be in fog.

Under Solas it is a requirement for sea going vessels to have a radar reflector. The whole purpose of a reflector is for other vessels to see you, and the bigger the reflector the better.

Would you be saying to yourself you consider them worthless is a vessel colided with you and wrote off your boat because you didnt have one

Simon

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by codprawn

If there was a MAJOR difference in performance then you would be right - in the tests I saw there wasn't and in certain situations the trilens was MORE effective.

Go on king of gooogle, prove it
There is nothing on the Trilens website about there performance other than they say they are good whereas Echomax show their results warts and all Des