Pro's & Con's of fixed vs handheld dfc/vhf radio's

qcamel · 24 August 2004, 13:37

I am booked onto my operators course in early October thanks to all the great advice gleaned from the members of this site. My next question is which radio to choose? Everybody advices obtaining a dfc/vhf but do I go handheld for added security and extended use or a radio fixed to my consule? Also any guidance as to which models to look at? I know there is a radio manufacturer represented on this site, he always talks sense and so I am initially drawn to that product range.

Any thoughts and guidance most welcome.

Louise · 24 August 2004, 13:42

If you can, I would go for one of each. The fixed set will have a greater range than the handheld as you can mount a full size aerial on the a-frame but for safety it is wise to have a handheld too as a back up. My other half wears his handheld round his neck so that if the worst happened and he/we ended up in the water, he can get help without having to try to get back into the boat (which could be on fire or overturned...).

HTH

If budget doesn't allow both straightaway, maybe start with a handheld. If your cruising tends to be close to harbours, the range will probably be fine.

slimtim · 24 August 2004, 13:44

I've been debating this myself. Handheld or fixed? The things I've come up with so far are:

Handheld
- easier to take home at the end of the day
- less console space taken up
- cheaper?
- use it anywhere on the boat
- limited battery life
- No additional wiring needed

Fixed
- longer range
- longer battery life
- not so easy to take home
- takes up console space
- more pricey?

So I'm no where nearer to a decision either! Some points to consider though.

Tim

Scary Des · 24 August 2004, 13:55

I think that when you weigh up all the pros and cons the real difference is that fixed gives you that little bit more range than handheld.

The real question is do you really want DSC? Why not buy a good (cheap) VHF that will give you 5 years of reliable service while DSC set get cheaper and more useful

Des

Scary Des · 24 August 2004, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louise

....... My other half wears his handheld round his neck so that if the worst happened and he/we ended up in the water, he can get help without having to try to get back into the boat............

Hi Louise
Have you any experience of the range you get with a hand held at sea level, not trying to start an argument just curious

Des

Louise · 24 August 2004, 14:02

Hi Des - can't remember off hand. Will get Richard to post when he gets home - he usually has a better memory for these things than I do!

pmorgan · 24 August 2004, 14:13

Don’t know if this helps... On an RYA sailing course we were give a rule of thumb that a fixed mount vhf on low power (1W) would give an effective range of 1 nm where as on high power (25 W), 15+ nm, handhelds are normally 5W on maximum power.

Don’t forget the fixed aerial on yacht is at the top of the mast and this will increase the range. So I do not expect the handhelds effective range to be much better than a fixed one on low power. I have only experienced handheld to handheld range on RIBS on RYA courses, they worked OK but we were with in easy sight of each – maybe 1km apart.

Nauti Buoy · 24 August 2004, 14:17

Hi qcamel,

I had a Simrad RD68 fixed DSC radio on my rib, also bought a handheld ICOM M1V DSC radio. The Simrad used to give me grief and shortly before I sold my Rib the screen was starting to go and if you check another Forum you will find quite a few other members have had problems with their Simrads RD68's and getting no usefull advice backup from Simrad themselves.

Found the relevant links for you:
http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....highlight=RD68

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....highlight=RD68

The ICOM M1V I have is excelent, although I do not know what range it has as yet, have been round IOW and still retained coverage althought that is the extent I have relied on it. The battery lasts a long time and it is easy to use.

Hopefully this will be of some use to you. Good luck

Simon Hawkins · 24 August 2004, 16:58

Both are useful and effective. Handhelds will only transmit at a maximum of 5 watt whereas a fixed set will transmit at 25 watt, which will give you greater range. Look at what purpose you are going to use the VHF. If you are going to doing alot of cruising then a fixed set, however if you are to do your boating where you are in close proximity of other vessells then a handheld should suffice. If you go for the fixed set then please bear in mind the higher the arial the better the signal will be and also try and buy a handhled as a backup as radios do fail.

With regards to DSC as of next year the coastguard will not monitor channell 16 on their headsets but will instead have it coming through a speaker in the ops room, therefore the chances of them picking up a distress call will be reduced. In 2007 channell 16 will be obsolete so thereforte I would say go for a DSC unit Silva do a nice one for about £200-00.

Hope this is of use to you

Simon

qcamel · 24 August 2004, 17:03

Thats great guys, thanks for the advice and help. The dealer was pointing me towards the Simrad range, so very pleased I read the posts... Looks like ICOM are about to get some of my folding money...

Ollie

Scary Des · 24 August 2004, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louise

....My other half wears his handheld round his neck so that if the worst happened and he/we ended up in the water, he can get help without having to try to get back into the boat ............

Been thinking about this and I am concerned because I am not sure how well it would work.

I was told on my radio course that VHF is, in essence, ‘line of sight’ radio (I know that is simplifying it but bear with me) so horizon through 180 degrees to horizon in all directions.

You are most likely to fall out of a boat on a windy / wavy day. At sea level your ear is, say, 350 mm about the surface of the water.

With 1mtr waves you are (most of the time) 500 to 600 mm below the horizon.

How far will a hand held reach in these conditions? Des

BrendanS · 24 August 2004, 17:11

Quote:

of next year the coastguard will not monitor channell 16 on their headsets but will instead have it coming through a speaker in the ops room, therefore the chances of them picking up a distress call will be reduced.

They actually announced that as of Sept 2003 they would be going to speaker watch as and when they felt circumstances warranted it, so most coastguard stations are already on speaker watch for a significant proportion of the time. The chances of them not picking up a call are slim, as they record the channel for playback if it didn't come through the speaker clearly

Simon Hawkins · 24 August 2004, 17:27

Brendan thanks for the input but think that you are a little behind. In 2003 it was not mandatory for shipping to keep a listening watch on channel 16, whereas the coastguard did. In 2005/6 probably more 2006 the coastguard will not keep a listening watch on 16, but will have it through a speaker. What good is a recording of the channel after the event has happened.

Simon

BrendanS · 24 August 2004, 18:09

Quote:

Brendan thanks for the input but think that you are a little behind. In 2003 it was not mandatory for shipping to keep a listening watch on channel 16, whereas the coastguard did. In 2005/6 probably more 2006 the coastguard will not keep a listening watch on 16, but will have it through a speaker. What good is a recording of the channel after the event has happened.

Simon

I'm not sure which bit you didn't understand, but I found the original coastguard press release, which explains exactly what I posted in more detail. As I said, as of Sept 2003, the coastguard dropped the requirement to keep a dedicated headphone watch, and can put it on speaker - not 2006. The recording is in case no one gets the details when it comes through on speaker. They can replay it instantly.

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-do...=9&year=2003Â*

Simon Hawkins · 24 August 2004, 21:27

Brendan. Please look at the GMDSS leaflet produced by the MCA. Hope this clears up this point http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/gmdss.pdf

Rogue Wave · 24 August 2004, 21:52

I dunno if you are buying a handheld or a portable if you do buy a handheld then fit a cigarette lighter socket and ariel to your boat cos the horizon thing that scary des mentioned is correct,

BrendanS · 24 August 2004, 21:58

I've seen that document before, but it is out of date, or simply misleading, as though they will go to speaker watch entirely in 2005, they are already doing it now. Your post stated: "With regards to DSC as of next year the coastguard will not monitor channell 16 on their headsets but will instead have it coming through a speaker in the ops room, therefore the chances of them picking up a distress call will be reduced"

As the coastguard press release I posted says, they brought that forward, and are now doing speaker monitoring instead of headset monitoring, when ever it suits them, as of Sept 2003.

Jon Brooks · 24 August 2004, 22:08

Seems to be a tad of confusion here guys.
Lets see if the resident radio man can help!!!!

2003 was the date for commercial shipping to stop a dedicated ch 16 watch as they all had to have DSC fitted by law.

Last Sept the MCA started a wind down of the dedicated headset watch in its control rooms.
This was down to the man or lady in charge and the amount of radio traffic they have.

Next year all control rooms will change to a loud speaker watch.

Ch16 will never be obsolete it role is just going to change.
No longer a calling channel but for the use for SAR work and co-ordination.

This is from the horses mouth not the press release or website.
Less chance of confusion and interprtation that way.
All info from head radio man at MCA and head man in maritime dept. at Ofcom
(both good mates!)

Place it my job to know all this.

Its scary the amount of SRC (Short Range Cert) instructors who don't know all the right facts yet.
By the way that is not a dig at any one here just from some of the daft questions I get asked by some of them!!

My recomendation is that if your only boating in the UK you would be ok with non DSC.
If you considering going further a field then DSC is a must now.

For a suggestion on what to fit I would always have both.
Belt and braces and all that.
I always carry a hand held with me, sad I guess.

Southampton Boat Show is a good place to find a bargin come and see us too.

Radio's are getting cheaper, hell we have a waterproof hand held for less than £150 and a new DSC set for under £300.
All waterproof with 3 year warranty!!
"cheap as chips!"

Regards

Rogue Wave · 24 August 2004, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

All waterproof with 3 year warranty!!

Regards

Don't start me off on that one!

BrendanS · 24 August 2004, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Seems to be a tad of confusion here guys.

Jon, no confusion here. Just stating facts, and have hammered these issues out several times with Mike Martin.

On the other hand, while you are here....

I have a IC-M1 Euro V. It took a bit of a knock, and the squelch/volume control got bent. All works fine, but the knurled sqelch knob no longer does anything, which is irritating. If I send it in, how long for a fix, and what sort of estimated cost?

Cheers
Brendan