Radio

[thomas]

I get fed up with some of the ridiculous point scoring that goes on here, we should be encouraging people to go out and get proper training.

The majority of pleasure craft users, including myself, never use their VHF and it is only there if they get into trouble, you're basically saying that all these people don't need to bother about getting a ships license or an operator licence. Many people out there will be able to figure out how to turn it on and press the button to talk but there are many more who wouldn't have a clue. The licensing is there for a reason, most of my course was about what to do in an emergency but you're saying don't bother about it, just go figure if shit happens, crazy.

[Copinsay]

Originally Posted by Poly

I wonder if you keep your DSC switched off how long it takes to do a cold start and get a sat fix. I assume it will let you send a distress whilst waiting but does the position update once it gets a fix (if I remember correctly the repeat messages stop when the shore station acknowledges?).

SH HX851 DSC Handheld approx 1 min cold start for GPS fix, 40 seconds for warm start.

S

[willk]

Originally Posted by thomas

...you're basically saying that all these people don't need to bother about getting a ships license or an operator licence.....

....but you're saying don't bother about it,....

No thomas, you're saying that we're saying that. My wife pulls that kind of stunt: "but what you're really saying/mean is..."

My advice is to a bloke who appears to want a cheapo handheld for immediate safety at sea. Sure he should do a course but if he's going to sea tomorrow, then he'd be better with a handheld than a booking for VHF training next month - IMO

If you want to extrapolate that into my condoning the VERY WIDESPREAD routine use of fixed and handheld VHFs in the UK and Ireland by unlicensed users, then carry on - but I'm happy I didn't say that. I'm gonna give myself a point for that and yield the floor to you for the last word...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by thomas

The majority of pleasure craft users, including myself, never use their VHF and it is only there if they get into trouble, you're basically saying that all these people don't need to bother about getting a ships license or an operator licence.

No the "ship's" license is a legal requirement (free of charge), but as the Ofcom document I linked to earlier makes clear OFCOM are saying it is not essential to have a certificate of competence to listen, or make emergency calls.

[paddlers]

I'm going to put my hand up and admit that I haven't done the course and own a cheap Cobra handheld.
We go as a family to the West coast of Scotland each year for two weeks. I clip the radio to the dashboard of my 17' hardboat EVERY time we go out as another layer of safety along with my in date coastal flare pack, lifejackets, phone,anchor,oars, bilge pump. drogue etc etc.
I even turn it on SOMETIMES when we're fishing to LISTEN. I know the basics of radio protocol but hope I'll never need to use. I don't class myself as a hardcore offshore boater and we're very rarely more than a mile offshore but it's another thing that MAY save yours or somebody elses life if it works just like my lifejackets, flares etc.

I do have a license.

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by Poly

Both the OP and Peter_C are SIBbers and accordingly more likely to be h/held only. Hence, I assume, the suggestion to go DSC for the h/held.

I bought a handheld before they came with GPS and DSC, way back when I was kayak diving. Now I carry a Nautilus Lifeline with DSC while diving and boating on my person. It is only turned on to test it once in a while, and routinely charged.

My boat has an electronics tower with a fixed Icom VHF tied into my Garmin Chartplotter. Even before when I only had a handheld it was pointless to have it on as I could never hear it. My 2 stroke is loud and drones out even my fixed radio with two speakers. So in the past when I had a handheld I rarely if ever turned it on. Mostly it gets used to check the weather forecast.

The question of is your handheld on or off is only asked for those without a fixed VHF.

I will always stand by getting a VHF with DSC. When immersed in cold water, every minute counts.

[Dhf]

"Mayday help, I've lost my divers", that's what I heard broadcast on ch16 one day,
I was heading offshore with 12 pax aboard, already 4 mile out,
but as an Aux LB with ch zero we would always help whilst in range, so after turning about and returning to neutral,
I awaited the response from the local Coast Guard to get more detail, most important being position and divers drop time,
The CG responded very calmly to the frightened inexperienced Mayday caller asking position at first and exact number of divers,
the caller replies his approx position and he's lost two divers, that was all the info I needed to hit full chat in that direction,
there's three scenarios I'm thinking, there either pinned to rocks with strong current or trapped in old fishing net or,
hopefully! just carried down the Coast with the strong current. I decided scenario 3 was best to follow;
So after calculating how far they would drift in the given drop time, I refined our heading 1.5 miles South of drop zone,
as usual we heard the Sea King announce they where ready for take orf, and they were only 10 mile away at the time,
with RAF Brawdy on the door step, by this time I'm half way to my predicted drift zone,
then five min later we located the divers, alerted the CG and launched our small life-raft for support until matey in the rib turned up.
He said he lost sight of the divers marker buoys in the overfalls and couldn't find them after searching 15 min, so nervously made the call for help.
without that radio I'm sure the outcome would have been uncertain. the correct radio protocol would speed responce of course,
but we all got the message, so no lives were lost, so yes, having a VHF on board at all times is a must and could save your life one day.

[ShinyShoe]

So I think we've sorted all that out then...

...except i'm not actually sure the OP said he had no training did he? That was some other random who chipped in with the what is DSC question!!

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by Dhf

"Mayday help, I've lost my divers", that's what I heard broadcast on ch16 one day,~

~but we all got the message, so no lives were lost, so yes, having a VHF on board at all times is a must and could save your life one day.

And if the divers would have been carrying a Nautilus Lifeline VHF, they would have called their own boat on channel XX and been pickup without incident 15 minutes earlier.

[Mollers]

All we hear is Radio ga ga, Radio goo goo.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by poly

I wonder if you keep your DSC switched off how long it takes to do a cold start and get a sat fix. I assume it will let you send a distress whilst waiting but does the position update once it gets a fix (if I remember correctly the repeat messages stop when the shore station acknowledges?).

Originally Posted by Copinsay

SH HX851 DSC Handheld approx 1 min cold start for GPS fix, 40 seconds for warm start.

Icom M91 Manual says:
"NOTE: The distress call is paused for up to 15 seconds
when no valid position data is received. The distress call
is made when a valid position data is received within 15
seconds.
• If valid position data cannot be received within 15 seconds, the
distress call is made with a stored position data."
(Position data could be up to 23.5hours ago)

It doesn't seem to give a fix time but from cold less than 15 seconds would be optomistic... So I suspect poly is right you may not send a pos. if its not acknowledged you may get a new pos when resent (and you can manually choose to resend sooner than 4.5mins). But if acknowledged you protobably need to re-hit the red button to send the pos when it fixes...

Struggled to see what the HX851 does. But you can set it to only get a GPS pos every 5 mins to conserve power. That has to be better than 23.5hours old. On a kayak thats probably fine. On a rib doing 30kts thats 2.5NM difference in search location so I think I'd be choosing... the 5second or 1minute updates.

Couple of other things I like about the HX851 - hit red and you can select the distress alert type on that screen rather than burried in the system menu.

Receive a distress alert and it will let you convert to WPT and then give bearing and distance to it.

Originally Posted by Peter_C

And if the divers would have been carrying a Nautilus Lifeline VHF, they would have called their own boat on channel XX and been pickup without incident 15 minutes earlier.

I suspectthat incident wasn't yesetrday... in which case Lifeline didn't exist...

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by Peter_C

And if the divers would have been carrying a Nautilus Lifeline VHF, they would have called their own boat on channel XX and been pickup without incident 15 minutes earlier.

Sorry I forgot to mention, as Shiney suggests that was a while back, 24yrs,
blimey we only had Decca navigation system and paper reel sounders back then, and the compulsory VHF being commercial vessel of course,
there where some posh yachts fitted with the newer LORAN and GPS plotter systems, but we considered that cheating!
I did however, talk the boss into fitting radar eventually, marvelous piece of kit, especially for crossing shipping lanes in heavy fog.
But the majority of private boaters didn't have anything other that VHF at the time.

[HDAV]

Presumably if you have a "Nautilus Lifeline VHF" you still need a licence (free) and certificate (training/competency exam paid for) to use it?

[calibra]

Hi

Thanks for the replies. It was a very interesting read.

Since the radio was the last safety item to buy, I ended up with a new half decent one. I've also booked up to attend a radio course.

I am quite looking forward to it all

Roger ... Roger.. Over and out :-)

[Copinsay]

Glad it was helpful and pleased to hear what you've done.

And once you've done your VHF course you'll need not say....

Originally Posted by calibra

Over and out :-)

... ever again :o)

Best wishes

Steve

[biffer]

Not completely off thread, if you're after a fixed vhf have a look at the new standard horizon with the built in gps, buy it in from the states for about £130, very small, I've handled one, it's not a bad bit of kit

[Ovey]

Originally Posted by biffer

Not completely off thread, if you're after a fixed vhf have a look at the new standard horizon with the built in gps, buy it in from the states for about £130, very small, I've handled one, it's not a bad bit of kit

Yeah, it's a great bit of kit - I came close to buying it. The only reason I didn't is because I'm going for an NMEA 2000 network now, and the SH GX1700E is only 0183.


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