RIB Friendly Radar

Biggles · 12 August 2007, 02:31

Does a RIB friendly Radar exist. I mean something that is going to be of use to your average RIB owner on an existing setup. Is their a Radar transmitter out there that will fit on an average A Frame, not fry your brains out, work well and be a reasonable price. By reasonable price I mean a price that is comaprable to a decent chart plotter.

I would like a Radar but i'm put off by cost and health factors.

NR.

Simon B · 12 August 2007, 12:32

Checkout the Raymarine intergrated stuff, RIBS are short on space and a stand alone would be yet another screen or gizzmo to accomodate. Much as I dislike complexity their intergrated modular/add on systems look very impressive, its already been installed on my virtual rib!

Sadly Raymarine appear to believe no one else except the united states are interested in weather! Though this may change I hope.

codprawn · 12 August 2007, 12:53

There is no radar that is totally safe to stick your head in front of by the very nature of the way they operate. Having said that the risk is very small but one that should be avoided.

Instead of an A frame why not have a frame on the console - could also double up as a bimini cover. Some RIBs look quite good with this sort of setup.

As to cost the very cheapest way is to buy something like a monochrome JRC or similar.

Having said that with the cost of FLIR coming down so much I am seriously thinking of going down that road instead.

chris123 · 12 August 2007, 14:48

At the risk of stating the obvious, I don't think you can really compare radar with thermal imaging.

Whilst thermal imaging is great at short range in clear conditions with a limited field of view (unless you go for a pan tilt system and can devote the time to maintain a 360° watch), radar will have better range and will work in heavy rain / fog giving you a view of everything that is going on around you (provided you have the training / experience to read and interpret it).

Cheers

Chris

Biggles · 12 August 2007, 16:14

So is there a RADAR transmitter that you can stick in front of you on the RIB that doesn't emit to the rear. Lets face it your mainly interested in what is in front of you on a fast RIB. If the transmitter was shielded at the rear you could mount it on the consol which would mean the people on board would be safe from emissions. Just an idea.

peterb · 12 August 2007, 17:55

The trouble with shielding it at the rear is that its likely to screw up the operation of the unit in all directions.

I am no radar expert (nor anything else come to that) but a mate of mine had a nice new radar which failed to work correctly. When I looked at it - his reflector was in line with the dome and about 3 feet behind it.

A quick call to the manufacturers help line confirmed that this was a non-starter. Remounting the reflector above the dome solved the problem.

Biggles · 12 August 2007, 17:58

Being at the front and forward facing only i would hope to avoid any reaction from A Frames or reflectors.
I would be worried about what it could actually see though as it would be quite low.
Maybe Codders idea of fitting one on a frame over the consol is the way to go. A simple S/S tube fitted to my Consol screen would be the way for me to go.

Biggles · 12 August 2007, 18:04

I see JGTech has this item for £899.

http://www.boatersland.com/fur1623.html

Adverts for these Radars are difficult to follow. I can't work out if you get everything for this price or if the antenna is more money.

I also can't work out how the antenna fits and what size it is etc.

NR.

Biggles · 12 August 2007, 18:26

Here's a link to the manuals for the 1623

http://www.furuno.com/Furuno/Rooms/D....entity.Entity[OID[5B0AC100D8DB194E8E11236279F60AAF]]&Product=com.webridge.entity.Entity[OID[29DA439D1530FB4CBF62E117CA6378C8]]&ProductCategory=com.webridge.entity.Entity[OID[07860AE52FC370459BC6725E87CAE5DB]]&Tab=com.webridge.entity.Entity[OID[610B2768C391FB40A6D1D849554A5C1A]]

codprawn · 12 August 2007, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris123

At the risk of stating the obvious, I don't think you can really compare radar with thermal imaging.

Whilst thermal imaging is great at short range in clear conditions with a limited field of view (unless you go for a pan tilt system and can devote the time to maintain a 360° watch), radar will have better range and will work in heavy rain / fog giving you a view of everything that is going on around you (provided you have the training / experience to read and interpret it).

Cheers

Chris

I was thinking more of FLIR goggles or helmet cam. As to range you don't get much of a range on a RIB anyway as you are so low down.

FLIR will see through fog to a certain extent and is awesome at night of course. I think it would get used FAR more than RADAR!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7zA1cVH7xk

jwalker · 12 August 2007, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

Adverts for these Radars are difficult to follow. I can't work out if you get everything for this price or if the antenna is more money. I also can't work out how the antenna fits and what size it is etc.

I think you get all you need. The advert says the raydome is 15" diameter. Normally the mounting is bolts which go up through a plate and screw into the base of the raydome. However, I'd be waiting and saving up for a 4kw raydome and a colour display. The difference is well worth paying for.

chris123 · 12 August 2007, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

So is there a RADAR transmitter that you can stick in front of you on the RIB that doesn't emit to the rear.

I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve when it comes to radar, but on 'bigger' (commercial / military) radar you can get a function called 'sector blanking' which (AFAIK) cuts the transmission within a user defined area - I don't know which if any smaller radar units support this.

However, bear two things in mind - firstly radar needs to be as high as possible to get a reasonable range and secondly whilst you may be moving fast (and in conditions when you are having to rely on radar I would be inclined to throttle back), there may be other traffic coming up behind you faster.

Cheers

Chris

jwalker · 12 August 2007, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris123

...but on 'bigger' (commercial / military) radar you can get a function called 'sector blanking' which (AFAIK) cuts the transmission within a user defined area - I don't know which if any smaller radar units support this.

Biggles' advert for the Furuno say is has this facility. Does is actually blank the transmission or does it blank a sector from the screen?

chris123 · 12 August 2007, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I was thinking more of FLIR goggles or helmet cam. As to range you don't get much of a range on a RIB anyway as you are so low down.

FLIR will see through fog to a certain extent and is awesome at night of course. I think it would get used FAR more than RADAR!!!

Assuming an antenna height of 2m above sea level and flat conditions, you should be able to pick up a 1m high target at about 5 nM, a 10m high target at about 10 nM and the Needles (141m) at close to 30 nM. Obviously if wave height is significant this will be reduced, or at least intermittent.

In my experience with boat mounted thermal imaging kit (admittedly I haven't trialled the latest generation of kit), performance is very limited in fog, even heavy rain has a marked effect. In thick fog when you really need it, performance is not that good at all. Maximum range I would say is maybe 1 nM.

Cheers

Chris

codprawn · 12 August 2007, 20:58

Obviously it won't replace RADAR in all conditions - a lot depends on how you use your boat. if you get frequent fogs then RADAR is a godsend - if you operate a lot at night with not much fog FLIR would be far more useful......

chris123 · 12 August 2007, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Biggles' advert for the Furuno say is has this facility. Does is actually blank the transmission or does it blank a sector from the screen?

My understanding is that it blanks the transmission, however I wouldn't take my word for it

. Probably best to check with the manufacturer / dealer. I can't think why you would want to blank a sector of the display if it didn't blank the transmission, but like I said I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve.

Cheers

Chris

Hightower · 12 August 2007, 23:04

Blanking sectors is very useful on a boat as RADAR does interfere with some navigation sensors and receivers, the other advantage that has already been pointed out is that it offers protection from RF radiation. I used to work at a land based test facility and all these RADAR systems had this facitlity, these ranged from Naval systems to commercial ones and that was 15 years ago.

jwalker · 13 August 2007, 00:23

There ya go then Biggles, buy the Furuno and set the blanking for where your head is.

Just a thought since you felt that radar seeing behind isn't too much use; mostly that's probably correct but if the sea roughs up and you have to travel slowly, since you'll be preoccupied handling the boat it's good to keep an eye out behind. Some of the commercial vessels are travelling around the 20-25 knot mark and they could creep up on you.
Plus, you might need to look out for the polis.