Suzuki engine interface

BruceB · 06 February 2012, 00:46

Anybody else have problems with theirs?
Mine works perfectly sitting in the drive, but as soon as I start moving out on the water it drops off the network.
Been doing this for ages and no matter how many times I check the connections etc looking for a loose one I can't duplicate the fault at home so can't fix it.
Its starting to really annoy me.

SPR · 06 February 2012, 01:14

you tried using a big bin of water to test engine in drive way?

9D280 · 06 February 2012, 10:22

Anything else on the bus drop out (e.g GPS / sounder etc), or are you running it as a "branch" back to the console? Could you repatch temporarily to turn the branch into a backbone or vice versa? I'm thinking if it's a branch, and you repatch to make the wire to the transom a backbone and then loose the GPS as well, you know it's a cabling fault.

I still have a spare that came with my (used) plotter. It's no use to me, so if you want to borrow it & see if you can replicate the fault with a different interface, let me know.

It's also still available for sale if anyone's interested!

Simon B · 06 February 2012, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceB

Anybody else have problems with theirs?
Mine works perfectly sitting in the drive, but as soon as I start moving out on the water it drops off the network.
Been doing this for ages and no matter how many times I check the connections etc looking for a loose one I can't duplicate the fault at home so can't fix it.
Its starting to really annoy me.

Bruce,

Ours does exactly the same and we were disappointed too, as the interface should give a lot of information. Ribcraft do not fit them anymore and Suzuki/Lowrance did not have much useful information either, they may have discontinued production. I had not thought of the scenario of branch/backbone.

Ours drops out as as soon as the engine is started rather than moving out obn the water.

BruceB · 06 February 2012, 16:33

The backbone is fine as it does the same no matter where it is plugged in and my GPS aerial is after it on the network anyway.
It works fine with the engine running and starting, even slow speed in the water but as soon as the revs go up it becomes more and more intermittent and then stops completely.

Erin · 06 February 2012, 18:51

Have you got a good celan ground on the power circuit feeding the NMEA? If it drops out as revs increase it could be an interference problem. Are engine and interface both running off the same battery?

gotchiguy · 06 February 2012, 23:14

We had it fitted when it first came out and there were a few teething problems. Top tip: make sure the backbone is laid out precisely as in the user manual. There was an initial problem with ours in that the dealer diagram was inaccurate, but we were the first to have it fitted in the whole of France so perhaps it was sorted relatively quickly.

After the first two seasons ours packed up anyway, bloody nuisance. Even the data coming off a small DF50 is very useful for planning and accurate fuel read out etc.

Also, there is only one plug on the engine for each instrument, for example with ours, we had a hard trim gauge, so we could only have the feed going to one or the other. Something to bear in mind if you already have a fuel consumption read out.

BruceB · 08 February 2012, 00:24

Mine used to work fine as fitted, then it started dropping out ocassionally but now its at the point where it hardly ever works when the boats moving.
I can't duplicate the fault with the engine running on the drive no matter what I do. Since the GPS is on the same end of the network and works fine it can only really be at the engine interface or in the outboard wiring.
Its such a useful bit of kit I am loathe to just disconect it, plus I sold all the original gauges and only use LMF400's for eveything so need the interface for revs, engine checks and fuel flow etc!

9D280 · 08 February 2012, 09:37

I should pre-empt this with the comment that all below is a "thinking out loud" brain dump:

It works OK on the drive, but not at sea. 3 main differences: RPM ,speed & cooling water supply.

Can you test it to see exctly when it dies - is it as soon as the engine sees the water, or at a repeatable RPM or speed? (my old suz fell into a repeatable failure mode when the TPS failed) Would open up hapily - hesitate at exactly 10 seconds later and die back to idle at 30 seconds). Why not take the boat through something like the falls of Lora both ways on a falling tide.

On the way in, you set the rpm to the trip point (but a slightly lesser RPM than it tripped at last time). That way you get the RPM with lower speed, and can creep the revs up past the trip point and if it doesn't trip, you can then repeat the test on the way out at the "trip speed" but at at lower RPM.

Alternatively and possibly more controllable - Ask someone to tow you with ignition & instruments on but engine off (you should get all the low oil pressure etc warnings?) & see if it dies as they speed you up. Then repeat with engine idling in neutral, then slowly up the revs whilst in neutral but moving etc etc

Other tiny possibility - Do you have a failing voltage regulator / rectifier that is somehow confusing it?

I got some spare blue cables if yours is blue and want to swap them out to check for a loose / broken cable.

Erin · 08 February 2012, 10:55

As I've posted before in this subject, my first interface died after about a year. The second on involved some rewiring as they'd changed from blue to red conenctors, but so far so good. I suspect the EPS is at fault. Have you contacted Navionics/Lowrance? They may be helpful.

Texel Tom · 09 February 2012, 07:29

Any chance of getting a bit more info. What devices/displays do you have on the network? Are they blue connectors or red? What software version is the interface running? ( you can get this by entering the device via the device list)

Unlike the other NMEA2K devices the interface receives it's power via the engine not the backbone...

Chris · 09 February 2012, 08:45

I would swap out some cables first the NMEA2000 plugs are quite small and not that strong and the contacts would corrode very quickly if they did get any saltwater exposure.

I am guessing you have a layout like this...

Long NMEA cable runnig to the back and into a "T" off this "T" you have a cable running to the engine and on the other side of the "T" you have a terminator.

at the front you then have a few Ts joined together with guages, GPS etc?

Or do you have a second T at the back with the GPS?

jezza2011 · 09 February 2012, 12:57

looks like nema 2000 is like the old ethernet cabeling.
so things to check

terminators are corrrect and on the BUS side of the T connectors and not device side.
terminator are correct at 120Ohms and there are one at each end of the bus.
all connectors a re solid and clean.

There is only 1 power supply to the Bus.
There are no breaks in the bus.
The resistance across the bus is 60 Ohms with the terminators in place if its off then it could be the cable or water ingress into connectors

good little link
http://www.lowrance.com/upload/Lowra...173_112006.pdf

Texel Tom · 09 February 2012, 17:01

If you could let me have more info as per my earlier post I might be able to help. The problem may be in the NMEA2K network but I wouldn't start there yet. Let me know what devices and displays you have and describe the network architecture.

I also could do with knowing the engine year and model and how the interface is connected. I am guessing you are using analogue gauges not SMIS?

TT

BruceB · 09 February 2012, 19:33

My network is three LMF 400's, one LMF 200, one HDS 7, one LCX-27, Sonic hub, side Imaging sonar, one LGC 4000 and the engine interface, no analogue gauges all SMIS.
It runs down the whole boat with T's all along the way (some twin t's) until it gets to the rear where there is a twin T with engine interface and Gps aerial attached.
Its all red network.
The engine is 2006 or 07 (I would need to go look)
I'll go and check and look at the software version later.

Texel Tom · 09 February 2012, 21:03

Ok please bear with me on this. Can you confirm how the network is powered. During the LCX generation Lowrance networks were powered via the display power connector using the 3rd cable marked NMEA2K (or similar) When HDS was introduced the rules changed to prohibit any device powering networks and required a seperate single power supply. If you are using the LCX power cable as the network power then there should not be a second feed from either a network power node (as found in the starter kit) or from Suzuki's own SMIS loom. In fact I would probably remove the LCX network supply and use the second or third option. So please confirm the how this is configured.

Secondly please confirm the engine connection. Your engine pre-dates the K8 change so will have a large round SDS connector. What version of the interface cable do you have, round or square connector and are you using an adaptor?

And lastly do you have the GPS source set to the LGC4000 or could the system be sharing GPS data from the HDS-7?

TT

Chris · 09 February 2012, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceB

My network is three LMF 400's, one LMF 200, one HDS 7, one LCX-27, Sonic hub, side Imaging sonar, one LGC 4000 and the engine interface, no analogue gauges all SMIS.
It runs down the whole boat with T's all along the way (some twin t's) until it gets to the rear where there is a twin T with engine interface and Gps aerial attached.
Its all red network.
The engine is 2006 or 07 (I would need to go look)
I'll go and check and look at the software version later.

BLIMEY, thats a lot of gizmos, I struggled to keep an eye on 2 x LMF400s and a plotter.

I would try disconnecting everything but one LMF400 and the engine and starting from scratch. These networks can do some weird stuff and a T piece further up the network can cause problems with devices on completely different areas of the network. You could update the software on one item and it could interfere with another.

I am assuming you have the double T at the back of the boat terminated?

Also on the power side Texel Tom is spot on, only one power source can be used. They do make a special power node that can allow you to feed multiple power feeds into a single T however I think this might be an Evinrude item for multi engine installations.

BruceB · 09 February 2012, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texel Tom

Ok please bear with me on this. Can you confirm how the network is powered. During the LCX generation Lowrance networks were powered via the display power connector using the 3rd cable marked NMEA2K (or similar) When HDS was introduced the rules changed to prohibit any device powering networks and required a seperate single power supply. If you are using the LCX power cable as the network power then there should not be a second feed from either a network power node (as found in the starter kit) or from Suzuki's own SMIS loom. In fact I would probably remove the LCX network supply and use the second or third option. So please confirm the how this is configured.

Secondly please confirm the engine connection. Your engine pre-dates the K8 change so will have a large round SDS connector. What version of the interface cable do you have, round or square connector and are you using an adaptor?

And lastly do you have the GPS source set to the LGC4000 or could the system be sharing GPS data from the HDS-7?

TT

I am using a end connector with built in terminator rather than the LCX feed, both plotters are set to use the LGC4000 as the primary aerial as the HDS 7 doesn't output info onto the network, only internally within the plotter. The engine interface is round with no adaptors.
The nmea info on the interface says software version 2.2.0 FL800D model 3.0.0 and serial number 1163306.

As it is connected it worked perfectly for two years then started playing up pointing to a connection issue, which I can fid despite swapping and checking all the connections.
I did have a similiar issue with the aerial once but this was simply a loose plug..

The attached diagram shows the basic network, some of the T's are double T's and I may have the odd item in the wrong order as its a few years since I did it but basically this is how it is laid out. Can't remember if the interface is the last in line or the GPS but think from memory its the GPS. This last connection for these items is a double T with terminator fitted.

I do like my toys...........

Texel Tom · 09 February 2012, 23:39

Good advice from Chris and I think isolating the network down to the engine and one LMF and then one by one reintroducing each additional device is certainly a plan. I am still suspicious of the power issue but also the engine connection. As I said power to the interface comes from the engine side not from the NMEA network.

TT

BruceB · 09 February 2012, 23:52

The problem is doing this on the water, most connections aren't accessible without opening up the whole console. The fault cannot be duplicated sitting in the drive, even with the engine running, hence the reason I haven't been able to trace it.!