the point of VHF....

[psychopic]

Hi all, i'm sure it's been asked before but do you think there is much point to have a VHF if you are within mobile phone coverage? i mainly stay solent side of I.O.W? Just wondering if all the hassle of having to take a test etc is worth it? (i am assuming that you need to have past the test in order to use it? or can you get by just knowing the basics?) If it turns out that you guys think that it is a must have i'll get a hand held unit so suggestions on make and model that woudn't break would be great....

thanks

[Neil Harvey]

Personally I would not go out without a vhf.
I only got an operators license last year though, before that we only took one for emergencies and never used it. It was there as a backup only.

So, if you want to use it to contact people, get the operators license.
If you only want it for emergencies, you don't need the operators license.

Irrespective of use, the unit needs to be registered.

[havener]

Absolutely essential.

A few reasons why -

If you are in urgent need of distress, a mobile phone can only call 999 and therefore connect you with HM Coastguard. This takes time, which may not be available if you are on fire / sinking / seriously injured. However, a Mayday call made on VHF will be heard by all surrounding vessels, some of which may well (esp. in the Solent) be close enough to render immediate assistance. Equally, you may be in a position to render assistance to another close by you.

Position - if you are lost in fog, or not sure where you are, a mobile cannot help you. VHF however is instantly shown on the HMCG systems as a bearing and distance from the caller, thereby enabling assistance to be sent to you without delay.

Range - mobile service providers have no requirement to provide a signal - if a mast goes down, you're stuffed in that area. VHF coverage in the Solent runs off more than one aerial - HMCG will nearly always pick up your call (some local geographical locations may "shadow" the signal, but this is rare).

Information - VHF allows you also to hear weather information, large ship warnings, etc which I would consider especially valuable in a crowded area such as the Solent.

Getting a VHF licence isn't much "hassle" - you will learn an amazing amount on the one day course, which will benefit your boating generally. The second licence, for the unit itself, is free and lifelong and can be obtained online.

A good VHF, preferably a 25w installed DSC set, is about as valuable on a boat as the engine, and will usually work when the engine doesn't!!

Simon

[Stoo]

Beyond what Neil points out, the new VHFs offer some useful features that cell phones don't have. Specifically, the new ones have the ability to broadcast an emergency signal, including your lat/long (assuming you have it connected to a compatible GPS) with the push of a button. At best, the rescue services can triangulate a broad area to search from a cell signal...

And finally, I just think that it's a good idea to have more than one way to communicate! Over here, the government dropped the radio station license requirement, although an operators license is still required...

[Sixy_the_red]

Absolutely essential! Like Neil says, if you're using it for strictly emergency comms only then you can get away without getting a licence (although TECHNICALLY you should have one anyway - the fines are pretty hefty if you're caught broadcasting without).

If you're going out in a group then it makes a huge difference being able to talk ship to ship, but you deffinately need a licence for that. Contact Jimbo (RibNet member) for training - we did ours with him and it really is simple.

Handhelds have limited range so keep that in mind, but if you don't have room for a fixed unit then it might be your only option.

[Poly]

All of the above plus h/held vhfs are usually waterproof now - so much more robust than mobile phone. Many of them also can take AA or AAA batteries so helps avoid disaster if you forgot to charge.

Some harbour / VTS expect (or require) you to report movements, seek permission, ask for locks to be open or at the very least listen out for the bloody big ship coming your way.

And finally, if you need to talk to the bridge of a ship (e.g. to make sure they know your position, to point out you are a hazard (perhaps you have broken down in their way) then Mobile will be virtually impossible.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by psychopic

If it turns out that you guys think that it is a must have i'll get a hand held unit so suggestions on make and model that woudn't break would be great.

I see the case for getting one is being well made.

You can't get better value than the Standard Horizon HX-270, very well built and full of features but perhaps most important on a RIB - properly waterproof.

Let me know if I can get one for you?

Cheers

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by psychopic

Hi all, i'm sure it's been asked before but do you think there is much point to have a VHF if you are within mobile phone coverage?

A mobile phone will allow you to reach one person. A VHF will allow you to reach everyone within range, whether you know them or not.

jky

[spence]

The VHF should always be considered as a major part of the safety equipment and ideally have a fixed and backup hand held unit. Also if you are unfortunate enough to need assistance from the RNLI/CG helicopters etc whilst broadcasting they can direction find you to home in.

It makes my stomach turn when you read Ebay type adverts saying "boat fully loaded and all ready to go, all you need is a mobile phone and you are off..."!!


Like most things you'll only know its true worth when things start to go wrong, or when ordering the Cowes water taxi to get to the pub!

[codprawn]

A mobile phone is a great backup - put it in a plastic freezer bag and if you go in the drink then you will still have something with you. Obviously a vhf strapped to your lifejacket or stuck on your head would be better but it DOES happen people find themselves in the water with the vhf on the boat and the hand held in a locker or on the dash!!!

[Apherel]

I've upgraded my handheld VHF to an i com IC-m72 with an external mike and speaker so that I can keep it in my jacket, still hear the radio chat, and have a fighting chance if it all goes pear shaped and I end up alone in the water.

I'm quite happy with this arrangement, and wouldn't consider being out without it. It is more expensive than other handheld options, but well worth it in the long run.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by codprawn

A mobile phone is a great backup

Agreed. Here, the Coast Guard will often request a skipper to contact them via voice phone, especially when reporting something like speed/safety violations and the like.

jky

[codprawn]

Phones can have a pretty good range across water - I often talk people through computer problems on board various ships and the signal is often excellent - much better than on land!!!

Also in hilly areas there can be dead spots where VHF doesn't reach but as there are so many phone masts around it isn't that often you are out of range.

The ultimate of course is a SAT phone - I would be tempted if I was going offshore as they are no more expensive than an EPIRB.

[Ezgoing]

I agree with VHF fpr all the reasons mentioned above. ICOM have recently launched a floatable model which is perfect for smaller ribs.

best of luck

[Biggles]

Just to add a little twist to this thread. I would like to add a little something. I have been using radios of all sorts for umpteen years. And I have come to the conclusion that VHF radios and moving RIBs don't work together very well. I had been getting exasperated over how bad communications can be using what is supposed to be good kit. At first I thought it was maybe that some radios weren't as good as others and some just weren't set up right. However I started to accept these poor comms after being out on the St Paddy's day bash in the Solent and using my VHF Icom 421 to talk to Nautibouy on his mighty ship. We were both in the Solent outside Portsmouth. I think I was off Gilkicker point and he was at Portsmouth Harbour entrance. Both boats were moving and trying to understand Kathleen, who was on Nauti's boat was very difficult. I suspect Nautibouy has a good radio system professionally fitted so comms should have been good. Richard fitted my system prior to me getting the boat and I suspect that was done proffesionally.
Last week whilst out once again I was having trouble speaking to Matt whilst on the move but once I became stationary reception and clarity was excellent even though there was a bit of land and some buildings in the way. He was in Gosport Marina and I was at the Mary Rose bouy.
Has anyone else noticed how hard it can be to communicate on the move. Is it the radio systems or is it something to do with the wind rushing over the mic and receiving speakers ? Might it be that I need to fix a massive speaker extension to the 421 to make it clearer ?
For me VHF and RIBs have been a little disappointing.

And the best radio reception I get is from the coast guard and so it should be. They should be pumping out loads of watts from a high antenna.

Are we possibly using our radios on low power. Maybe it would be worth checking that.

[Nos4r2]

I suspect it's something to do with the direction the speaker is pointing while there's 30+ knots of wind rushing over it?

[codprawn]

Only solution to that is a helmet and a headset - very valid point though. My radio can be turned up full and I won't hear a thing at full speed.

[Alex Brown]

When you're using the mic, try and keep it behind the screen rather than in the wind - it does make a difference. Also, if it's raining or you're taking lots of spray, blow out the mic first to clear any water that may be garbling comms. When you get back, rinse the thing out as well to prevent the salt from drying and also garbling comms (we found this with the safety boats at the yacht club).

My Icom 503 has been (and still is - touch wood) faultless, and I can hear it clearly at any speed since it's right down in front of me.

A personal gripe is the stupid little rib aerials with the coils(!!) - after having worked on ribs with these, and then going back to my own boat with 1.8 metre fibre glass antennae I then realise how much better performance I get with both reception and transmission due to the extra height.
Before anyone says, my aerials are now over 4 years old, and they get subject to pretty extreme movements at the back of the boat since we only ever seem to go out when the swell is over 3metres high

-Alex

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I suspect it's something to do with the direction the speaker is pointing while there's 30+ knots of wind rushing over it?

No doubt the ambient wind/engine noise is a huge factor. Another factor might be the antenna. Last year, I switched from a 3' "whip" style wire antenna to a 5' glass one. The new one is much more rigid. The whip used to... well, "whip"... all over the place which presumable effects the direction of the radio waves radiating from it. In most of the pics I've see on here, it seems the wire antennas are more common.

The additional height of my new antenna might help as well, but I routinely get 20 mile coverage back to my house (which has an antenna on the roof.)

The other item that might be a factor is the amount of other radio traffic. It appears that you guys over there are boating in much busier areas. Over here, I can be on the lake all day in the height of summer and not see 6 boats after I leave the harbour....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Stoo

The other item that might be a factor is the amount of other radio traffic. It appears that you guys over there are boating in much busier areas. Over here, I can be on the lake all day in the height of summer and not see 6 boats after I leave the harbour....

Not all of use boaters live near the Solent.

Wales and Scotland can be pretty remote as well at times!!!