Toys for the boys

Keith Hart · 23 April 2002, 17:11

We know that all these gadgets we get for our boats are all essential safety equipment, dont we? Yeh, right!

So what have YOU got then. Lets see just how popular these bits of ESSENTIAL kit are. What is the well dressed RIB (don't forget the SIBs as well) wearing down on the marina catwalk?

Come on folks get polling. Vote for what YOU think is the most essential piece of kit that any RIB/SIB should have.

Keith (Swingometer) Hart

PS The 'Swingometer' thing is a British political joke.

You only get ONE vote, so think about it first

Keith Hart · 23 April 2002, 17:30

Oops, I think I'll get this back up top.

Keith (pushy) Hart

dbillyboy · 23 April 2002, 21:09

Never mind what gadgets have we got, a bloody engine would be nice!!

Bill (A ten horse would be nice) Davison. TLS!!!!!!!!!!!

Keith Hart · 24 April 2002, 11:12

20 votes so far and Hand Held VHF Radio appears to be streaking ahead with 5 votes to date. I wonder who voted for Radar (Brian)?

Keith (keep on polling) Hart

Keith Hart · 24 April 2002, 11:25

Just a thought...

Why did I vote for Hand Held GPS? (who cares Hart) - (I keep hearing voices - they are telling me to buy a Fish Finder aaaargh)

My vote was initialy a tie between HH VHF and HH GPS. Both are, in my very humble opinion essential. Well I finaly decided HH GPS after reflecting on Andy and Cherie's story about being stranded on the island at the SoC sendoff weekend.

They had to wait for the tide and by the time they were able to leave there was some mist and they could not see the Barage Locks. Fortunately Andy had marked the locks as a waypoint on his HH GPS. They were therefore able to get back okay.

If they only had the HH VHF, what would they have done? Would they call the coastguard, maybe. Okay so what if you hit something and your boat sinks? Chances are you'll loose the radio anyway (certainly will if it is a fixed set).

Well that made me decide that overall the HH GPS was best. They can be used anywhere in the world and as Jools said they can even be used by a large vessell. Also the HH VHF has a limited range and the GPS does not.

Well that's my reasons. Shoot away folks, I'm thick skinned. As proven by the dent my forehead made in PoB's bunk!

Keith Hart

Mike Garside · 24 April 2002, 11:44

Keith. as far as I'm concerned, you're right about GPS.

But no-one should put to sea with less than two of them. Personally I reckon 3 is better. GPS ineveitably makes us lazy navigators and to avoid the total panic that can occur as the fog clags in and the charts are packed away you need plenty of electronic back-up.

I have a fixed GPS and a hand held onboard these days. In the days I roamed further afield I had 5 - including the one in an Inmarsat-E kept in the grab-bag.

jools · 24 April 2002, 22:41

OK, so at the moment (combining fixed and H/H units)

VHF Radio is in the lead with 40% of the votes
Second GPS with 25%
third Mobile Phone 18%

This seems to me to be the correct order

Taking Kieths example of finding yourself on an island and trying to find the Barrage in the fog - Fine GPS helps, but you should also have a chart and compass - and with these you should have been able to find Cardiff.

Now if the situation had been slightly different, and when beeching there RIB on Flat Holme they had damaged their RIB, Prop or their engine wouldn't start. Using a GPS to see where they are - or where Cardiff is won't help much! - having a VHF radio they could call for assistance from other RIBS or ships in the area - or worst case the coastguard.

Without a radio they would be stuck - in the tides in the BC there is no way that you could row or swim etc.

I picked the fixed set - as I'm always petrified that the batteries on my portable are going to run out!!

A mobile phone is a poor mans substitute - the networks aren't too keen in putting masts in the middle of the sea just in case you get lost.
(technicaly its also illegal because the mobile phone licences are for "Land use only" - but thats another story)

Also RNLI, CoastGuard etc can home in on your VHF transmission - so even if you don't know where you are (no GPS) they should be able to find you - and they can't do that with a mobile phone.

just my 2penith

Jools

Mike Garside · 25 April 2002, 07:57

No argument with your logic, Jools. But have to differ with you on the fundamantal thinking.

Your choice of radio over GPS puts a priority on getting help from others when you are in trouble.

I, personally, have a problem with that line of thinking. I believe that if I put to sea, I should be responsible for my own destiny. Sort out my own problems.

Of course, you can, perfectly reasonably, put forward the argument -"What is the RNLI there for if it's not to rescue people?" I can't dispute that. Only I do have a big problem with putting anybody else's life at risk coming to my rescue, especially if my need for rescue is in any way linked to a navigational error on my part.

I choose GPS - because good navigation is fundamental to good seamanship.

Over to you!

batfalcon · 26 April 2002, 06:08

A HH VHF because as you may know, there are some GPS writstwatches made by CASIO.
It is not a RIB/SIB gadget so you may have them both.

Brian · 26 April 2002, 09:54

Keith-no, I didn't vote for RADAR !!
I voted for fixed GPS/Plotter.
My logic is like Mike's-sort yourself out-don't get into trouble to start with. Hence most vital bit of kit is a fixed plotter (batteries on HH give out too quickly and plotter not really up to the task). VHF is a backup, except......
For years I cruised without a radio. When asked why I didn't have one I used to argue that
a) I wouldn't get into trouble to start with and
b) I would sort myself out and
c) if anything untowards hapenned to me it would be MY OWN STUPID FAULT and I didn't want anyone risking themselves to sort out a prat like me.
This argument allowed me to sleep at night until someone asked me what I would do if I came across a burning, drifting boat with injured people on board who couldn't help themselves and needed urgent external assistance.
I took my radio course and bought a radio the next week.

Mike Garside · 26 April 2002, 12:57

Brian's right. Like him, for the same reasons, I clocked my first 30Knm at sea without a radio either. But I did eventuall get a VHF.

And the argument for radio versus telephone is that the broadcast aspect of the radio transmission allows you to respond to an all stations distress call as well as benefit from other helping hands close by. You can't do this with a mobile phone.

In fact, on the way back from the SOC bash in Cardiff, just after we had passed Padstow, Falmouth Coastguard put out a radio call for boats in the area to go to the help of a couple of windsurfers in trouble.

Using the VHF, we offered to turn back but a local fishing boat was already closer and we were not needed. With only a telephone we would have been completely unaware of the emergency.

Yes, radio's important. But to prioritise it ahead of the safety provided by pin-point navigation achieved with GPS is, in my view, bonkers!

Keith Hart · 26 April 2002, 16:48

Good point Brian. Okay then, who has voted for radar and why?

Keith Hart

wavelength · 28 April 2002, 19:32

non of us are immortal or infallible and getting lost is not the only cause of distress at sea-far from it. The day that the boat suffers a catastrophic dose of damage from a semi sunk container or whatever you may well need help. If u can fix it then you would not use the vhf anyway but if not u will need some help from the emergency services or passing fellow boat owners. To say i do not want to put others lives at risk just does not wash - if u are reported overdue the services will look for u anyway so why make the job so much harder by not carrying vhf onto which they can home in and save time. The less time a lifeboat or a CG team is searching then so much less is the risk and so much sooner are those resources freed up for someone else who may be in desperate need . Does this self help policy extend to not carrying flares? Nobody sets out to be a casualty but if the worst happens we should be in a position to do all we can to help ourselves and also those who may come to our aid

Mike Garside · 28 April 2002, 19:48

Point well made, Dave. Interesting to read what you have to say, especially as you yourself are a coastguard.

I wholeheartedly agree that a radio should be carried. I'm not quite sure, though, whether you are are advocating a radio as a higher priority than GPS. Personally I put GPS first and radio second.

What about you?

wavelength · 28 April 2002, 21:02

Radio first - by a long way. Buy the boat, trailer(cept Keith [mines little and lives in my boot] of course), engine and radio-then look for the toys. We are perhaps lucky round here in that we have a number of boat clubs who are active all year, they are out cod fishing in the depths of winter, and all of them carry vhf - ok they use it for chattting most of the time but they rarely need outside help - if someone has a problem then a word or two over the vhf alerts everyone out there and another boat will sort it without the authorities ever being involved.
As a CG we get all sorts of incidents (as does daughter on the lifeboat)-but thats life, things go wrong and there is a lot of goodwill towards people who have done all they can to avoid the problem and then to make life easier for SAR if they do become a casualty. After all the only people for whom nothing ever goes wrong are those that do nothing!

Keith Hart · 28 April 2002, 23:43

None of the above! Okay, what then?

Keith (hmmmmm) Hart

batfalcon · 29 April 2002, 06:41

After all these crimes you've solved, can't you discover WHO is responsible for the radar vote ?
I have someone in mind.........

Mike Garside · 29 April 2002, 07:33

OK Dave, I guess it boils down to what you do, where you go, and when, why and how you do it.

I can see that from your perspective, working your chunk of the North Sea with a lot of other mariners that know the waters and each other, a radio as number one priority makes sense.

On the other hand, making an extended voyage into unknown waters and doing so without, first and foremost, GPS is courting disaster. Particularly so at RIB speeds. Making a landfall on a new coast line, using only dead reckoning, aint my cuppa tea.

Hardly any of the vessels I have ever come across at sea (except those flying the Red Ensign - and there's hardly any of those these days - or the Stars and Stripes) keep any sort of listening watch. And if they do they seldom speak English.

I sure wouldn't like to rely on the crews of Portugese, Russian, Korean or Arab fishing boats to come to my aid if I called out HELP!