Vhf radio help

[greenb]

Hi I recently bought a cobra vhf with built in GPS my question is do I have to register this device to use it also to receive GPS
Tia ben

[ShinyShoe]

You don't need to register to use GPS. BUT you do need to licence it to get an MMSI (like a telephone number) so that you can transmit your position if you hit the red button.

Licencing the radio (or technically the boat the radio is on) - is free of charge if done through the OfCom Website.

You also, other than in an emergency, require a certificate of competence to operate the radio, other than on CH37M which wouldn't serve any purpose for the GPS part. (That would have covered the licencing requirements so I'm guessing you don't have this). Its part online, part practical. It costs ~£70-100.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

You don't need to register to use GPS.

legally you may not, but practically the radio may not display GPS position until an MMSI number has been entered.

[Jabamusic]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

You don't need to register to use GPS. BUT you do need to licence it to get an MMSI (like a telephone number) so that you can transmit your position if you hit the red button.

Only relevant for DSC ( Digital Selective Calling) equipped radios.

[ShinyShoe]

Jaba

Can you show me a GPS equipped VHF that doesn't have DSC?

Never seen one. Not sure what the point in one would be...

[SPR]

Originally Posted by greenb

Hi I recently bought a cobra vhf with built in GPS my question is do I have to register this device to use it also to receive GPS
Tia ben

Radio needs to be registered by LAW , ( view as Car Tax)

Ships' Radio or Ship Portable Radio | Ofcom

This will give you MMSI Number and will enable all the DSC functions of radio, including RED Button.

PLEASE DO THIS - Regardless if you do ther opertators course.

To use the RADIO for non-emergency purposes, you need you operators certificate as well by LAW. ( view as Driving Licence)

The options explained on my website:

2014 -RYA SRC Course Changes - RYA SRC VHF Marine Radio Courses - Scotland

Ch. M (37a) , M2 (P4) Brackets are Icom Radios- are private channels and you dont need operators cert. but have limited use since these are Club Channels.

In emergency all rules go out the window, but to enable the red button MMSI must be entered in Radio

regards

S.

[greenb]

Right guys thanks for your helpfull comments I understand now sort of,but why do I need a licence by law just so I can talk with my mate when we are out at sea,is that not a little bit over the top
Cheers
Ben

[Poly]

Originally Posted by greenb

Right guys thanks for your helpfull comments I understand now sort of,but why do I need a licence by law just so I can talk with my mate when we are out at sea,is that not a little bit over the top
Cheers
Ben

Because its not a toy (if you want to use an unlicensed radio to chat to your mate buy a PMR - but bear in mind that none of us are listening for your distress call on it!).

A marine VHF radio is part of an international systems of Global Maritime Distress and Safety Systems which means that even if the nearest boat is a visiting yacht from France, or a cruise ship registered in Panama, or an American naval vessel they all use the same technology, with the same standards and an agreed method of operating. Part of that is that the users must be trained so (1) they understand which channels should be used for which purposes; (2) they understand how to use an open broadcast radio without distrupting other peoples messages (power, listening before talking and using the correct key words etc); (3) you understand when to use vhf and when not to (and the legal issues).

Perhaps the most important thing you will learn on the course is how to make an effective distress call (both by DSC and by voice). If you think that is not important then bob around the solent long enough and you will hear an unclear, message which doesnt provide all the detail you need.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by greenb

Right guys thanks for your helpfull comments I understand now sort of,but why do I need a licence by law just so I can talk with my mate when we are out at sea,is that not a little bit over the top
Cheers
Ben

Just like "why do I need a licence by law just so I can drive my car down the road with my mate when we get past the end of he drive, bit over the top".

Which side of the road do you drive on? Rights of way? Traffic lights etc

For someone in your position who I guess hasn't had much maritime experience, having never heard people use VHF, the course and licence is a must.

It'd be like driving on the road having never even seen others use it.

Without the course/knowing the rules of operation you would very quickly end up on the wrong end of the coastguard and other users!! Never mind potentially blocking emergency calls from people in distress.

[greenb]

Blimey all of a sudden I feel im getting spoken to like im a complete idiot With all the exclamation marks getting thrown around,i just wanted too fully understand the ins and outs.
I fully understand the laws and the importance of following them,however I just thought maybe there would be certain channels a pleasure boater like myself would be able to use that wouldn't interfere with any commercial operators
Thanks

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by greenb

Blimey all of a sudden I feel im getting spoken to like im a complete idiot With all the exclamation marks getting thrown around,i just wanted too fully understand the ins and outs.
I fully understand the laws and the importance of following them,however I just thought maybe there would be certain channels a pleasure boater like myself would be able to use that wouldn't interfere with any commercial operators
Thanks

You will learn all of this once you do the course
Hence the need for the course
You could probably learn most of the stuff by reading guides etc but the course gives you everything you need in one shot and the required licence at the end
It's not essential and no one will be bothered about you calling for help in an emergency without your licence but I've heard too many fishermen chatting about the best fishing on ch16

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by greenb

Blimey all of a sudden I feel im getting spoken to like im a complete idiot With all the exclamation marks getting thrown around,i just wanted too fully understand the ins and outs.
I fully understand the laws and the importance of following them,however I just thought maybe there would be certain channels a pleasure boater like myself would be able to use that wouldn't interfere with any commercial operators
Thanks

Don't take it to heart. You asked a question & got a pretty comprehensive direct, informative response. Look how much knowledge you've acquired in a very short period. If some of the answers were too direct, it's probably because the "answerer" didn't have time to pussyfoot around dressing it up & sweetening it. Stick around, you'll get used to it👍


Lions led by donkeys

[willk]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Stick around, you'll get used to it��

He's been an upstanding member for many years, PD.

OP - what VHF did you actually buy?

[greenb]

I bought a cobra f77 seems a good buy had everything I wanted and was 50 pound cheaper than the icom.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by greenb

I bought a cobra f77 seems a good buy had everything I wanted and was 50 pound cheaper than the icom.

You should have spent the other £50 👍


Lions led by donkeys

[Iron Dials]

Hi greenb,

You've woken the anti-Cobra brigade!
There are some well experienced contributors on here who feel there are better choices.

In pursuit of balance (not stoking the fire at all!),
I have a Cobra as my handheld vhf. It floats, burps (out the water if it has been floating), has bluetooth for your phone (which I never use) and probably does other things. Was great value too.

It still works, it's still fully intact, the battery life remains good. It gets clipped to my lifejacket every outing and thrown in the bottom of the bag when we're going home.

We have a fixed Icom as well so the Cobra doesn't get much pampering but it's absolutely perfect, continues to do what it says on the tin.


*(to get lots of responses to a post I think the optimum is to buy a chinese rib, triple E-tecs, cobra electronics, no experience and plan to go cruising the day you launch it off your home-made trailer without getting the wheels wet while towing it with a Navarra!)

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Iron Dials

Hi greenb,

You've woken the anti-Cobra brigade!
There are some well experienced contributors on here who feel there are better choices.

In pursuit of balance (not stoking the fire at all!),
I have a Cobra as my handheld vhf. It floats, burps (out the water if it has been floating), has bluetooth for your phone (which I never use) and probably does other things. Was great value too.

It still works, it's still fully intact, the battery life remains good. It gets clipped to my lifejacket every outing and thrown in the bottom of the bag when we're going home.

We have a fixed Icom as well so the Cobra doesn't get much pampering but it's absolutely perfect, continues to do what it says on the tin.


*(to get lots of responses to a post I think the optimum is to buy a chinese rib, triple E-tecs, cobra electronics, no experience and plan to go cruising the day you launch it off your home-made trailer without getting the wheels wet while towing it with a Disco4)

Ftfy😄


Lions led by donkeys

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Iron Dials

*(to get lots of responses to a post I think the optimum is to buy a chinese rib, triple E-tecs, cobra electronics, no experience and plan to go cruising the day you launch it off your home-made trailer without getting the wheels wet while towing it with a Navarra!)

You forgot putting holes in trailer to make it lighter !



www.firstaidatsea.co.uk
www.SPRmarine.co.uk

[ShinyShoe]

And surely saying does anyone really use the little red curly string for anything and I bought a lifejacket cause I thought I'd be responsible but I'm keeping it in the packet for best.

But if you want the more flaural reasons of what Poly said...

Seriously - the reality is you need two bits of paper. The MMSI one otherwise half the critical functions on your F77 don't work. Its free so you have nowt to winge about crack on and get it registered. And you need the operator's certificate.

There are two channels that don't need a operator cert in the UK M1 and M2 or 37A/37M or P4 depending on your radio brand. But they "belong" to marinas and sailing clubs. So depending where you are you may cause problems. Certainly if I was a sailing club (paying to use M1) and you start chatting with your mate I'm gonna get annoyed if its affecting my ability to manage a race. So if thats what you are looking for you'd be better with a 446MHz licence free PMR radio.

There are only a very limited number of simplex channels - working like you'd expect a normal 'walky talky' to. Most of the channels are actually pretty useless these days as they were intended for ship to shore work so the shore replied on a different channel. Ship to shore except emergency working is 99% done through sat phones / mobiles / the internet these days. So you have a tiny handful of channels for ship to ship comms where both sides of the conversation are on the same frequency. Abuse that and people will get annoyed. Use it nicely and in reality no-one will care if you have a bit of paper saying you know how. But of course to know how not to abuse it requires you to learn... ...thats the job of training?

Now comes the really crucial bit. Having a VHF is a nice to have to call your mate to say the fish here is rubbish can we move along a bit, or that beach we planned to visit is full of chavs lets skip round to the next one. But actually there is a good chance with modern mobile coverage you could do that on mobile, or PMR would do the job and while PMR is also not rich on frequencies it uses CCTS tones that create virtual channels so you are less likely to pi$$ everyone else off. The crucial bit is Channel 16. Or actually on your radio Channel 70 + 16. Its the ability when the sh17 hits the fan to press the red button, pick up the microphone and talk and someone with some semblence of sense hear it and come and sort the fan out for you so the sh17 stops hitting it. You have an obligation to be listing to 16 incase you are the person with the semblence of sense, you have an obligation not to clogg 16 with chatter so that when someone is needing help its free, and it can be life or death if you only get one chance to get the right information out in the right way that everyone understands. Everyone - commercial or non-commercial all use the same channel for distress handling so that everyone who could be useful is listening. Here is a quick self test for you...

1. You are out on your boat alone in 100m of water. Your single engine has failed and despite everything you try it wont run for more than 10 seconds without dying. Its 4pm in the afternoon, its autumn and will be dark about 7pm. you are 2 miles from land. You have no mobile signal. You told your wife you'd be home about 6:30pm. What action will you take? Which buttons, what order, what speech will you give, what will you do if no-one answers

2. You are out with your mate. He suddenly goes grey and slumps forward clutching his chest. He is breathing but us clearly very poorly. You are 5 miles from a safe port. You try hitting the throttle to get back to shore quick but the pounding of the waves are making his symptoms worse. You have 1 bar of mobile reception.

3. You are about to enter harbour when just below the surface of the water you spot a dark blue 8ft x 40ft rectangular shape. You avoid it just in time and as you get close you realise its the top of a submerged shipping container. You have 4 bars on your mobile and are 10 minutes from being tied up alongside the marina where the harbour master is based. You can see two yachts a mile or two out that look like they are also headed for the harbour. You can't see the yacht names.

4. You are out at sea 2 miles west of a lighthouse and hear a muffled call on CH16. You hear the words Mayday. You hear panic in the voice. You hear the lighthouse mentioned. You look towards the lighthouse and see a fire on the surface of the water with a large amount of black smoke rising from it. You hear nothing more, and hear no-one else reply despite knowing there are other vessels not much further than yourself. You have 2 bars on your mobile. If you are using your VHF what buttons are you pressing, for how long, what are you saying etc.

If you think you know the answers to these and are confident they are right (I'm not talking nit picky right, I'm talking does it achieve the goal every time it could have) then you *may* not need the Course. Although it does cover other stuff including more on the GMDSS system including EPIRBs etc, and which antenna to buy for your F77 etc. If you decide the F77 is not for you as you don't want the course etc and PMR is the answer for you then you'll need a plan for what you do in scenario 1, 2 and 3. Scenario 4 **may** be less of a concern as they won't be calling you on PMR. Although if you spot the fire you are going to have a similar issue

Rather ironically, In all of the above situations you actually don't need a the course to legally use the radio! That legal "loophole" isn't designed to discourage you from doing the course, its designed so that in each of those cases you don't not transmit for fear of prosecution.

The course will let you use a simulator to see how it all joins together. Pressing the magic red button isn't something you can do for practice on live kit.

You will undoubtedly struggle to find someone in the UK who has have a Marine VHF Licence / Operator Cert checked in the last 10 years on a pleasure craft.

[sailrib]

Originally Posted by greenb

Blimey all of a sudden I feel im getting spoken to like im a complete idiot With all the exclamation marks getting thrown around,i just wanted too fully understand the ins and outs.
I fully understand the laws and the importance of following them,however I just thought maybe there would be certain channels a pleasure boater like myself would be able to use that wouldn't interfere with any commercial operators
Thanks

If I may chime in. I think the others are just saying that the rules and laws for VHF use has been like this for many decades and are not really flexible or optional and that every mariner needs to follow them.
The authorities who oversee the marine airwaves in the UK and other countries just simply want to make sure anyone using there airwaves are doing so as prescribed whether it's just for silly chit chat to friend 500m away or trying to report a life at risk MayDay 40km away.

So the only way they (powers at be) can make sure mariners (you and the rest of us) know the protocols and rules of the airwaves is to make sure we take a class for it. Unfortunately using a vhf without passing this class is considered breaking the law.

Any questions?