what amp rated cable should i use for spotlights

[Hugh Jardon]

fantastic you are a star, i am going there on sunday morning so will pick up a tin or two


thanks a lot

[Hugh Jardon]

I have been biding my time to share this bit of news.....

Lots of folks on here have been giving me advice to use tinned wire and only tinned wire. And it seems that in the views of some folks that to use anything else would be: not advised, silly, stupid, uneconomic, a nob and all the rest...

If i dont use tinned wire my electrics will fail in 6 months and turn into a big green mess etc etc

You will notice i started another thread on here asking how you tell if wire has been tinned or not

well

you may be surprised to hear that not all major manufacturers use tinned wire for their components!! or dont appear to at least.

using tinned wires because it is critical to the safety of your boat...that seems to be the line!!

it has been mentioned if i dont use tinned wire on my nav lights may fail, etc

well there are a couple of other components i consider slightly more critical than a nav light

Mercury and Icom do not appear to use tinned wire in all their looms and wiring

if you have an Icom Radio, check out the power leads (fairly critical i would say) and see if they are silver coloured or copper coloured!!!!!

if you have a mercury or mariner, check out your kill cord wiring, safety neutral switch wiring, key switch harness wiring, and other ancilliary wiring bits, i think you will find they are all copper coloured, are just crimped on and not tinned or soldered into place!

It would appear that there could be an answer to this mystery, perhaps they use high tin content wiring or use copper coloured tinned wire!!!! The experts on here believe that tinned wire is usually/always tinned coloured silver coloured.

It would seem that the major manufacturers use wire that may be marine grade but it appears to be copper coloured and could be normal grade wiring!

They seem to rely on providing plastic flexible covers over the connections that are relied upon to keep water out of the joint. Some do ask that you you use self welding tape over the connections (icom)

check out your wiring on your suz or yam or honda!!

so i would like to think that mercury and maybe icom know a bit more about marine conditions, but maybe they dont eh!!!!!

[Mark Halliday]

Hugh/Chris

I think what people are saying is "Just because the big boys don't bother, why should you follow their bad practice"

Have a trawl round and see how many threads you can find where electrical/electronic kit has stopped working and how many times it is down to bad connections/wiring.

Just make sure that all the bits of Icomm, Mercury and Navman wire that you connect up are properly sealed.
It will save them loads in waranty claims.

To be fair, RIBS put the kit in a far harsher environment than most boats. There are very few nice warm and dry spots on a rib, unless it is in the garage.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

I have been biding my time to share this bit of news.....

So...following your logic.. because some manufacturers don't do it you shouldn't....? Manufacturing is about keeping costs down to keep selling as cheaply as possible, isn't that so? Do you think they give a damn if you suffer a breakdown outside of the warranty period? Ask Volvo marine engine owner/users about the non-water-proofed electronics and how much that costs them out of warranty. I'm replacing some of the electrics on my Humber (and that includes connections to the kill switch, nav lights and main fuse box) which is less than two years old and has led a sheltered life. Why ? Because a sizeable majority of boat builders/riggers do the job as cheaply as possible.
You asked for advice…whether you choose to follow it is entirely down to you…..

Doh..Mark was typing at the same time as me. ...and whilst we're on the subject of "What manufacturers fit..so it must be right".. How many trailers from the likes of Bramber Etc are there out there fitted with Al-Ko axles..? Does that mean they're suitable for "marine" use?.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

ok time to break some bad news to some people....

I have been biding my time to share this bit of news.....

Top marks for a mature approach to the subject.. ......the only people it is bad news to are those who suffer some sort of electrical miss-hap due to penny pinching by manufacturers/builders/riggers.....

[Hugh Jardon]

Originally Posted by Jono

So...following your logic.. because some manufacturers don't do it you shouldn't....?

No not saying that, just identifying that some manufacturers dont use tinned wire, dont solder on connections and they rely on plastic covers as the barrier from the elements. Also helping some folks understand that while they may have rewired using tinned wire there may be some other weak links in the chain in critical areas

[Hugh Jardon]

Originally Posted by Jono

Top marks for a mature approach to the subject.. ......the only people it is bad news to are those who suffer some sort of electrical miss-hap due to penny pinching by manufacturers/builders/riggers.....

penny pinching and not taking care to use sufficient preventative measures to protect wiring from early failure

[tcwozere]

Originally Posted by Jono

Manufacturing is about keeping costs down to keep selling as cheaply as possible, isn't that so?

I thought manufacturers kept the costs down to maximize their profit.. If your spending £30k+ on a rib, you would have thought everything was gonna be top spec.. Unless you ask for it, (and pay the extra,) I bet they use bog standard stuff..

[Searider]

Originally Posted by tcwozere

I thought manufacturers kept the costs down to maximize their profit.. If your spending £30k+ on a rib, you would have thought everything was gonna be top spec.. Unless you ask for it, (and pay the extra,) I bet they use bog standard stuff..

No tinned wire on my early Scorpion. Well, there wasn't - but there is now
An example of a premium product where the "best practice" was not followed.

[Hugh Jardon]

what year is your scorp?

Originally Posted by Searider

No tinned wire on my early Scorpion. Well, there wasn't - but there is now
An example of a premium product where the "best practice" was not followed.

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

Perhaps if people like Dirk and Rogue Wave actually were more constructive instead of abusive then newbies and other folks might have a bit more respect for the site and these particular traders or individuals.

I would be happy to buy some tinned wire at a reasonable price especially if I could get it at the prices Dirk indicated or similar.

Sorry you feel that way, but you need to realise that it can be very frustrating to be asked for advice, only to be told that your wrong, especially by an amateur have a go hero! The only good thing about it is that in the end we get to earn loads of money sorting out there balls ups!

I tend to only use tinned in the engine compartment of a hard boat, but everywhere on a rib! You ribbers seem to enjoy being constantly damp.

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

Perhaps i should have posted a thread asking where i can get tinned wire at a cheap price.

Probably not a bad idea, though I did tell you a while ago that Aquafax would sort you out!

Out of interest, Aqua's retail price for Blue Sea single core, 16G (8amp ish) "TINNED" is £6.86 per 30 metres, and 14G (17amp ish) is £11.38.

If you can manage to avoid talking down to them, you may get a 20% trade discount!

[Hugh Jardon]

thanks for the nice message and insight, and pricing information from our friends at aqua, much appreciated.

hopefully yourll trust i am not your average "amateur have a go hero" as i have a long technical background and spent many years as an aircraft engineer where things are just slightly more critical/complex than boat components. That comment is not meant to put anyone down but is to share i probably know a little more about some things than i let on.

I would never say that using tinned wire is wrong and i don't believe i did, however i would say that if non tinned wire is used then suitable steps need to be taken to ensure the integrity of the wire is maintained and it remains fit for purpose, and periodic checks made to ensure it is standing up to the elements.

I would also like to point out that most folks on the water are potentially running round with some of the most critical items in their boats running with non tinned wire and they may not be aware of this fact and ensure they check that these cables are suitably protected from the elements.

I appreciate getting advice as i feel you are always learning and sunday i will be picking up some liquid tape amongst other items

when i ordered some bits i mentioned your name and they loaded 50% on the price!!

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

Sorry you feel that way, but you need to realise that it can be very frustrating to be asked for advice, only to be told that your wrong, especially by an amateur have a go hero! The only good thing about it is that in the end we get to earn loads of money sorting out there balls ups!

I tend to only use tinned in the engine compartment of a hard boat, but everywhere on a rib! You ribbers seem to enjoy being constantly damp.



Probably not a bad idea, though I did tell you a while ago that Aquafax would sort you out!

Out of interest, Aqua's retail price for Blue Sea single core, 16G (8amp ish) "TINNED" is £6.86 per 30 metres, and 14G (17amp ish) is £11.38.

If you can manage to avoid talking down to them, you may get a 20% trade discount!

[Searider]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

what year is your scorp?

1998/99 I think - based on conversation with Scorpion no hull number on it unfortunately.

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

i will be picking up some liquid tape

Awful stuff! Liquid neoprene is much better, and cheaper.

[Hugh Jardon]

Ok excellent,

we used to use some really great stuff on the aircraft but my stock ran out a few years ago, i will look for some of that as well.

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

Awful stuff! Liquid neoprene is much better, and cheaper.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

...I tend to only use tinned in the engine compartment of a hard boat, ......

Does that tell us something, Dirk?

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

That comment is not meant to put anyone down but is to share i probably know a little more about some things than i let on.

I for one certainly hope you do.... You coy devil!

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Does that tell us something, Dirk?

yeh, I'm a penny pinching fecker!

If you use a good quality bilge blower or pump, Rule etc, then the wiring is tinned, so I use the same, together with heat shrink terminals ... Engine compartment on hard boats are quite often damp due to condensation, and these two items are pretty crucial to the safe operation of the craft.

All of my cabling forward of the helm is in multi strand copper,for two reasons, it's easier to form tight curves with for neat installation, and I truly believe that very few vessels have been lost at sea due to failure of the stereo system or cabin lighting! IMHO

The occasional ribs that I've worked on have been wired with tinned throughout.

[Jonny Fuller]

Hey Jeff, I'm glad to see you using our fine smilie database! (Kennett'll catch on one day)

Hugh jardon, you should have wired ya bote in Nyvin!

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

.. and I truly believe that very few vessels have been lost at sea due to failure of the stereo system or cabin lighting! IMHO

Hey Jeff, I'm glad to see you using our fine smilie database!

Yeh. Just don't move it or it'll make things a little confusing!