Beware if Buying a Mercury Marine Boat!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by garyboat

Do you guys have any link to Mercury or interest in defending them? Certainly seems like it.

Nope, but we have an innate sense of fair play & justice. To that end, we like to be in possession of facts, not rantings & ramblings. All stories such as yours have 2 sides, up to now we've had half of your side & getting that's been like pulling teeth. You have been very selective with the information that you've proffered, despite repeated requests for the full details of your complaint. Either put up or shut up.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by garyboat

The boat is a 2005 boat bought in 2007. Bought from Inflatable Service and Supply in the state of Washington - a Mercury dealer at that time.

Wow, rather fundamental detail missing from your original posts.

So the boat is 7 yrs old (and even if it came with a 5yr warranty from date of purchase that might have expired too?). Then since you've not defined the fault or how it came to light - so people might be rightly suspicious that it is (at least in part) accident or heat damage, which no warranty would cover.

Now if you were in the UK, I would be pointing out to you that your contract of sale was with Inflatable Service and Supply not Mercury. What are ISS saying? I'm no expert in US law, but I'd be surprised if ISS do not also carry some or all of the responsibility.

However, if I understand correctly, Defender were paid to repair this and it has gone wrong since then. I'm confused why your gripe is with Mercury rather than Defender. If I had paid that sort of money for a repair that only lasted a few months and failed so catastrophically thats where my complaint would be being directed.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

Now if you were in the UK, I would be pointing out to you that your contract of sale was with Inflatable Service and Supply not Mercury. What are ISS saying? I'm no expert in US law, but I'd be surprised if ISS do not also carry some or all of the responsibility.

Thing is P., it's not even clear that Garyboat is the first owner - he doesn't quite say that he was..., or wasn't.

Boat built in 2005
Sold in 2007 to?

Was it used (second hand) or old showroom stock?

Did the leak appear from nowhere or was damage repaired that then leaked?

Lotta questions unanswered.

[captnjack]

I would not be all that surprised that the boat was made in 2005 and sold new in 2007.

There are multiple "Inflatable Service and Supply" companies in Washington however, some still in business and some defunct. But regardless, the warranty would be from the manufacturer, not the dealer. Defender is an authorized Mercury dealer so I can see why he was sent there. But its not at all clear why the boat needed repair in the first place (split seam from overheating vs. flawed glue in the first place?), what remedies Mercury has proposed over the past months, and who's paid for what repairs.

I need a timeline to make this a plausible complaint to me. Not that I'm shopping for a RIB anyway.

[jyasaki]

Gary; Nobody on here has been defending Mercury. All we've been doing is withholding judgement until we have information on what happened (which is pretty short in coming.)

I have yet to see a post saying that Mercury is not at fault. You seem to have acquired a good dose of anger at Merc, and a decent amount of paranoia of the people on here. Exactly what are you looking to obtain by posting here? Help in getting a course of action? Some relief from venting? Or a lot of agreement that Mercury is crap? If the latter, you may be in for disappointment, as a lot of people are quite happily using Mercury products.

jky

[Locozodiac]

Sometimes it's better to fix it yourself at a repair shop. A real crime to charge so much money.

Happy Boating

[garyboat]

Originally Posted by willk

Thing is P., it's not even clear that Garyboat is the first owner - he doesn't quite say that he was..., or wasn't.

Boat built in 2005
Sold in 2007 to?

Was it used (second hand) or old showroom stock?

Did the leak appear from nowhere or was damage repaired that then leaked?

Lotta questions unanswered.

I am the first owner. The leak appeared from nowhere - there was no accident. Started as a very slow leak and then got worse. Mercury has NOT DISPUTED THAT THIS BOAT IS DEFECTIVE - and they paid for the defender repair. Now it is worse.

[garyboat]

Originally Posted by Locozodiac

Sometimes it's better to fix it yourself at a repair shop. A real crime to charge so much money.

Happy Boating

I wish I could. I had a couple of nice calls from Zodiac people. They seem more intersted in this than does Mercury!

[garyboat]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Gary; Nobody on here has been defending Mercury. All we've been doing is withholding judgement until we have information on what happened (which is pretty short in coming.)

I have yet to see a post saying that Mercury is not at fault. You seem to have acquired a good dose of anger at Merc, and a decent amount of paranoia of the people on here. Exactly what are you looking to obtain by posting here? Help in getting a course of action? Some relief from venting? Or a lot of agreement that Mercury is crap? If the latter, you may be in for disappointment, as a lot of people are quite happily using Mercury products.

jky

Yes of course I am angry at Mercury. I think other people should be warned and made aware of my experience so the same will not happen to them. As it stands my investment in this boat is now almost totally gone - aside from the engines I suppose. Simple as that.

[garyboat]

Originally Posted by captnjack

I would not be all that surprised that the boat was made in 2005 and sold new in 2007.

There are multiple "Inflatable Service and Supply" companies in Washington however, some still in business and some defunct. But regardless, the warranty would be from the manufacturer, not the dealer. Defender is an authorized Mercury dealer so I can see why he was sent there. But its not at all clear why the boat needed repair in the first place (split seam from overheating vs. flawed glue in the first place?), what remedies Mercury has proposed over the past months, and who's paid for what repairs.

I need a timeline to make this a plausible complaint to me. Not that I'm shopping for a RIB anyway.

I was told the seam is defective. Mercury paid Defender for the repair but I had to pay to haul it, and trailer it to CT twice. Mercury seems to be in agreement that the boat has been defective from the start - yet they expect me to pay multiple thousands for retubing. This is what led me to post here in the first place. I think it's wrong - and I can actually afford the repair - it's not about the money. I have several boats and have never seen an attitiude like this. (36 Grady, 52 custom walkaround.)

[captnjack]

Originally Posted by garyboat

I was told the seam is defective. Mercury paid Defender for the repair but I had to pay to haul it, and trailer it to CT twice. Mercury seems to be in agreement that the boat has been defective from the start - yet they expect me to pay multiple thousands for retubing. This is what led me to post here in the first place. I think it's wrong - and I can actually afford the repair - it's not about the money. I have several boats and have never seen an attitiude like this. (36 Grady, 52 custom walkaround.)

Its not Mercury's responsibility that you live a decent distance from where you bought it and the nearest vendor who could fix it. So I can see why you'd need to pay to get it to them (Defender). Frieght to return an item is not an unusual warranty limitation at all.

What I don't uderstand is what did Defender do? The rubrail should have been removed to expose the underlying seam, and that doesn't appear to have been done. Is the boat hypalon or PVC?

Did Mercury agree the tubes were defective in writing? What exactly did they say? If Mercury has agreed the boat is defective, why aren't they paying for new tubes? Or are they just expecting you to trailer it someplace to get re-tubed?

[A1an]

Il get straight to the point Gary, if you deal with Mercury/Defender with the same vague manner that you conduct yourself on this thread I'm not surprised you havent got anywhere.

[garyboat]

Originally Posted by Poly

Wow, rather fundamental detail missing from your original posts.

So the boat is 7 yrs old (and even if it came with a 5yr warranty from date of purchase that might have expired too?). Then since you've not defined the fault or how it came to light - so people might be rightly suspicious that it is (at least in part) accident or heat damage, which no warranty would cover.

Now if you were in the UK, I would be pointing out to you that your contract of sale was with Inflatable Service and Supply not Mercury. What are ISS saying? I'm no expert in US law, but I'd be surprised if ISS do not also carry some or all of the responsibility.

However, if I understand correctly, Defender were paid to repair this and it has gone wrong since then. I'm confused why your gripe is with Mercury rather than Defender. If I had paid that sort of money for a repair that only lasted a few months and failed so catastrophically thats where my complaint would be being directed.

Sorry that is not correct: Just as if you bought a defective car -the responsibility is the manufacturers - not the dealers - at least in the USA. Mercury arranged the repair at Defender - to fix THEIR defect. The fix made the boat worse. It is Mercurys responsiblity to fix the defect - they know that. That is why they arranged the repair.

[garyboat]

Originally Posted by A1an

Il get straight to the point Gary, if you deal with Mercury/Defender with the same vague manner that you conduct yourself on this thread I'm not surprised you havent got anywhere.

I bought a boat with a bad seam. Mercury has tried to fix it and failed and is now proposing that I spend thousands myself to retube the boat. If Mercury is not denying that the boat is defective, why would anybody on here be? I am on this forum simply to warn others who may be considering a similar purchase and have offered to speak on the phone with anybody who is interested in hearing the details. Call me at 212-684-0200 during East Coast biz hours and I will gladly tell you everything you need to know if you are considering purchasing a Mercury rib.

[achille2124]

Originally Posted by garyboat

I bought a boat with a bad seam. Mercury has tried to fix it and failed and is now proposing that I spend thousands myself to retube the boat. If Mercury is not denying that the boat is defective, why would anybody on here be? I am on this forum simply to warn others who may be considering a similar purchase and have offered to speak on the phone with anybody who is interested in hearing the details. Call me at 212-684-0200 during East Coast biz hours and I will gladly tell you everything you need to know if you are considering purchasing a Mercury rib.

The repair from Defender failed and you don't want to haul the boat several miles again to get it fixed once again, I understand that its quite a journey. Don't you have a local company that you could hire to get a repair done and ask Mercury to pre-approve the repair?

I don't understand why Mercury wants to change the tube at YOUR charge since they recognized that the tube has a defect. I think it is a drastic solution to a "minor" problem, replac getting patches on a 5 years old tube set is not a big deal. Replacing a tube on such a big boat for a leaky seams is unrealistic.

However, if THEY suggested to replace the tube, it should be at their charge and they would be in their right charge you a little pro-rate since you used the boat 5 years. You should not have to pay for the whole thing though. Once again, I think it is a very drastic solution for a little problem.

If it is YOU who asked Mercury to replace the tube to fix the problem, then I think they are in their right to refuse.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by garyboat

Sorry that is not correct: Just as if you bought a defective car -the responsibility is the manufacturers - not the dealers - at least in the USA. Mercury arranged the repair at Defender - to fix THEIR defect. The fix made the boat worse. It is Mercurys responsiblity to fix the defect - they know that. That is why they arranged the repair.

As I made clear in my post, the situation in the UK is very clear (and is the opposite from you describe). I'd be a little surprised if US law was so totally different (especially since the boat was clearly in stock - so not built to order under an agency agreement). Of course just because Mercury may not have a legal obligation to help you doesn't mean they won't as either a gesture of goodwill or because they will end up repaying the cost to the local dealer anyway.

Originally Posted by garyboat

I bought a boat with a bad seam.

maybe although if the seam lasted 5yrs and you have no details of the fault I'd guess it might take some convincing that there was a latent defect rather than collision or overpressure damage.

Mercury has tried to fix it and failed and is now proposing that I spend thousands myself to retube the boat. If Mercury is not denying that the boat is defective, why would anybody on here be?

you have in writing an admission from Mercury that the boat has a defect, or your interpretation of what Mercury have said or done is that they acknowledge a defect?

I am on this forum simply to warn others who may be considering a similar purchase and have offered to speak on the phone with anybody who is interested in hearing the details. Call me at 212-684-0200 during East Coast biz hours and I will gladly tell you everything you need to know if you are considering purchasing a Mercury rib.

Why do you care what other people do? Logically people will assume you care about trying to change Mercury's position.

[captnjack]

Originally Posted by Poly

As I made clear in my post, the situation in the UK is very clear (and is the opposite from you describe). I'd be a little surprised if US law was so totally different (especially since the boat was clearly in stock - so not built to order under an agency agreement). Of course just because Mercury may not have a legal obligation to help you doesn't mean they won't as either a gesture of goodwill or because they will end up repaying the cost to the local dealer anyway.

Most warranties in the US are provided by the manufacturer. Manufacturers generally obligate you to return the product directly to them or to one of their 'authorized' dealers which may or may not be the dealer you bought the product from.

Occasionally dealers offer 3rd party extended warranties which are available for additional $$ at the time of purchase. They tend to be expensive with lots of limitations and profit margin for the seller. Financial advisor types generally don't recommend them.

I don't know of any dealers of products offering long term warranties regularly. Used boats and used cars might (for instance) come with a 30-90 day warranty. Any kind of longer term 3-5 year warranty on a car, boat, or outboard would come from the manufacturer.

Just how it works 99% of the time over here.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by captnjack

Most warranties in the US are provided by the manufacturer. Manufacturers generally obligate you to return the product directly to them or to one of their 'authorized' dealers which may or may not be the dealer you bought the product from.

On a 'day to day' basis this is common in the UK too in terms of how it is practically implemented, but legally the obligation applies to the person who sold you the goods not the person who made them - that is who you have a contract with (they in turn will have a contract with the manufacturer (or a wholesaler or distributor) and can claim from them but that is not the consumer's concern). As a result when the preverbal hits the fan, and especially when the manufacturers standard support lets you down its not the manufacturer you need to deal with but rather the dealer. Google hasn't helped me understand if this is the same in the US, you do have some special laws about vehicles and manufacturer warranties - but its not clear if they apply to boats, especially since they vary from state-to-state. Presumably someone 10's of thousands out of pocket would seek some legal advice on the credibility of their claim though?

However lets assume that the manufacturers warranty is relevant and enforceable; here is what the mercury marine brochure that covers the PT750 range says:

Originally Posted by http://www.mercurymarine.com/_media/pdfs/productbrochures/Professional_RIB_Product_Literature.pdf

1. Coverage
The Mercury Professional RIBs (described below as the “product”) are warranted for the use for which each model has been defined, from the date of purchase for a period of:
1.1 Two years against any material defects, workmanship of the craft or its components, this covering the Tube, GRP Hull, Parts and Accessories.
1.2 Ten years against aging, cracking or porosity of the Akron TPE inflatable tube material, which could affect its performance.
1.3 Five years against welding failures of the main thermowelded seams of the inflatable tube according to the ISO 6185 standards.

So, since the failure is apparently a failure of a seam, and the boat is now 5+ yrs old (from sale, and 7+ from D.O.M.), could it simply be it is out of warranty?

Still Gary obviously wasn't getting the response he wanted here and so posted a virtually identical post on iboats a few days ago. The admins there must be less tolerant as the thread has disappeared.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Poly

So, since the failure is apparently a failure of a seam, and the boat is now 5+ yrs old (from sale, and 7+ from D.O.M.), could it simply be it is out of warranty?

Which brings up the question I asked several pages ago: When was Merc notified of the problem?

Other questions: When did Defender get the boat for repair? Was Defender notified that their repair failed?

For those interested, the Long Island to Waterford Conn run is about 200 miles or so max (less if Gary dows not live at the extreme east end of LI.) Doesn't seem like all that far to trailer the boat assuming someone will look at getting things resolved. My normal dive day is round trip of 200 miles, albeit likely in a less congested area (I'm not familiar with the East Coast.)

The other question that has not been answered is what Gary wants to get from his posting on here. Seems simple enough that if he feels he has a case where Merc is not honoring their warranty, bringing in a consumer rights attorney would have been a step to take quite a while ago.

jky

[PeterM]

Are Mercury US the same as Mercury UK/Barrus etc ?

I'm assuming they are and they have a very good reputation in the UK. ( especially around warranty work)