Hurricane 590 chine walk...Help !

skidoodog · 26 September 2009, 19:05

Hi all,

I should introduce myself as I am a first time poster on Ribnet. I have been lurking and soaking up the good info found on this site.

I have recently stepped up and bought a ex us coast guard Hurricane. Had it shipped up from Texas this spring and got to work. After much labour and the great assistance of Scott and Mike at inland inflatables I am on the water.

I have a couple of inflatables now and the hurricane is a real eye opener. I thought the Cherokee 480 was good. This boat handles rough water very, very well for its size.

I have been having a blast on lake ontario with the recent strong easterly winds. Kicks up great waves to play in.

This brings me to my question. I have a Yamaha F150 on the boat. Lots of power and quiet. It has a new top end so I have just recently been pushing it a bit speed wise.

At about 40 mph the boat begins to rock from side to side. It starts fairly quickly and after about 3 bounces from side to side its too much and I have to back off the throttle....

I lowered the engine one hole position to try to fix it with no luck. The bracket now sits about a centimete off the transom. Prop is a 19 inch pitch Yamaha salt water series.
Any ideas anyone ?

Cheers, Dave

ribfan · 26 September 2009, 20:16

Hi Dave, Welcome to Ribnet. Nice boat, looks good on the water. When it chine walks how is the engine trimmed? If it's way up, have you tried dropping it a bit? My rib sometimes will chine walk at WOT, about 43 kts if it's trimmed way up. Dropping the motor back in a bit usually stops it. The problem is not enough of the boat is in the water.

Bill

Chris · 26 September 2009, 20:49

Chine walking is something that quite a few ribs can suffer from. There are a number of contributory factors such as

- Weight distribution front to back and side to side
- Engine height on transom (too low can have cause chinewalking)
- Tube pressure low
- Engine trim tab set to wrong angle
- Engine not offset on transom or incorrectly offset.
- Prop type

I would start by lifting your engine a couple of holes (especially if you have lowered it as this will probably make the chine walk worse) How high is you anti ventilation plate in relation to the bottom of the transom?

Mollers · 26 September 2009, 22:08

Engine too heavy for hull.

skidoodog · 27 September 2009, 02:00

Thank you all for the friendly welcome.

This is a great forum for the RIB enthusiast. My first taste was an avon 3.75 with a Yamaha 30. I never looked back. Great fun !

Thank you also for the fast response. I will consider and try to action all your tips.

I understand Stoo has an almost identical set up......

Stoo are you out there ??? We must talk...

I did adjust the engine trim tab today and the chine walk seems a bit better. Hard to tell though,....another rough and rainy day on the lake. Warm water and 17c air temp, 6 foot swells and chop out front.....Jolly good fun but a difficult day for fine tuning. Lots of airborne time.... yeah..!!!

*****Be carefull with the Yamaha F150 , motor mounts will fail if subjected to severe abuse. I have 2 yamaha F150s trade in motors to illustrate the peril....broken mid section on one, and a broken crank on the other ....Every engine has its limits. Be carefull. Don't severely pound a yamaha F150 continuously. It will break, one way or the other until Yamaha fixes this weakness.

I have hydraulic steering so the feedback is limited but the steering effort is more equall now. Turning left required slightly more effort previously so the back of tab moved right 10 degrees off center. Better. I need calmer conditions to get this exactly right.

Chris,

Tubes are hard. pumped as hard as I can with the foot pump, the over pressure valves (yes relief springs are a bit tired but at 80 dollars each X 5 I am reluctant to replace them) are seeping at this point. I understand this is the correct way to run a 590. Tubes run in the water so this keeps flapping to a minimum.

I continue to top off the fuel. I really want it to be good with 35 gallons of internal fuel on board. I want the range. It seemed to handle better with less fuel on my initial trials. A bit bow heavy now with full fuel...Hmmm.... obvious but makes me want to move some auxiliary fuel aft close to the back of the cockpit.

The ventilation plate is now even with the bottom of the boat. As I mentioned it was 1 hole higher before (bracket about 2.5 cm above the transom, now 1 cm) , I lowered it 1 hole with little effect... I understand higher is better, the advice i got was, run it as high as you can with acceptable, occasional ventilation. It rarely ventilates now when the boat is actually in the water (due to local conditions). Ventilation was not a problem before lowering either ?

The 590 is rated for 720lb on the transom, unbelievable really but true. I have crawled out on top of the engine to place my 200lb on the transom, boat sits in the water fine, engine off, simulated power failure, 6 foot swell Humm. . The F150 weights 460lb so it is not too heavy according to Zodiac or inland inflatable. I initially thought that 115hp would suffice but inland suggested the 150. I'm glad they did. I have had 4 adults and three children aboard and it made little difference in performance... Nice, power to spare.

Cheers,

Dave, in Port Credit

Stoo · 27 September 2009, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidoodog

Stoo are you out there ??? We must talk...

You called? Mikey told me about you... Congrats on the new toy! I've had mine for years and just repowered it. The 590 is an awesome boat!

As for the chine walk, I just trim my engine down a bit and it settles right down. You give up a little speed but the wobble can get a little terrifying if you don't reign it in.

Since I put the 4 stroke on, it doesn't happen much. I presume that it just sits a little lower in the water.

So what are you using your boat for? Diving perhaps? I was out last weekend around Long Point. 36 miles out and 39 back in. There wasn't another soul out there, other than a couple of lakers going by!

Just looking at your pics, my boat is rigged a little differently, with the full self-righting set up. I also carry a couple of aux. fuel tanks back there, although I only tend to fill them when I'm going "someplace". (With these tanks and the inboard fuel, I have a range of about 180 miles!) Also, more often than not, I have set of double tanks more or less "living" up in the pointy end, so all in all, I suppose I might be hauling around a little more weight than you are...

skidoodog · 27 September 2009, 23:37

ahhh Stoo... we meet at last.

Yup I thought we would be in touch sooner or later. I think I have seen your boat At inland over the years. Always admired it and said "someday I will have one of those". Lucky me that day finally arrived.

The boat is to be used primarily as a familie day boat. We rent a cottage on an island in Parry Sound so we love to explore the area. This boat will give me some weather capability that I just did not have with the Cherokee 480. I also live 5 minutes from launch ramps in Port Credit so lake ontario is a fun playground as well. Niagara on the lake and Youngstown N.Y. is only 26 mi. across. Way faster than the sailboat....

Stoo you have a wealth of experience with these boats so if you don't mind I would love to pick your brain. If you are game here goes...

What hole is your engine mounted in ? Mine is second from the top at the moment. Is this right?

what prop are you using ? Mine is a 15 X 19 saltwater series Yamaha prop.

How is your engine tab set. I gather this may be contributing to the "wooble".

I'll try your idea with the trim. Just need a good calm day to open it up. Hopping for about 50mph.

I like your self righting tower as well. Wish I had one...I love this safety feature. My tower just has the anti lash back protection screen in it and bollards for towing. Can't tow off the bollards on the tower anyway cause the engine cowl is so tall. Now its just a good place to put a radar....Hah !

Good stuff with the fuel. I was thinking of setting up a couple of outboard tanks in the back as well but probably strapped down to the floor. A fuel selector and an outboard style connector should do the trick. Thinking of range for georgian bay.

Attached a pic of my interior of the hurricane.
Also a pic of my dad in the cherokee exploring in georgian bay. I love this boat too. I can cruise for 4 hours on 20L of fuel at 18mph. The 45 honda sips fuel. I think I'm in for a bit of a fuel shock with the 590.

Cheers,
Dave

Stoo · 28 September 2009, 01:57

That's a funky colour scheme Dave... Just in time for Halloween!

I think my engine is on the second whole as well. I have two props... my old 17" and a 19". The 17 was over-reving, but the 19 is a bit slow on take-off.

With a good load in the boat, I am typically burning about a litre per mile at about 4200 RPM. Compared to the old 2 stroke, this is down right miserly. I use the Yamaha Command Link gauges and I have noticed that the speed I am running doesn't drastically effect consumption, unlike the two stroke.

Speaking if Mike, I think he has another 590 listed on this forum. A buddy of mine was considering it but he has a brand new Bombard...

I don't know if you have been out in an real weather yet, but once you get used to the 590, you'll never the leave the dock in the Cherokee again!

skidoodog · 28 September 2009, 02:52

Yeah, had a box of heavy duty safety orange powder coat on the shelf so decided it was the right colour. A bit more visible than the black that was in it. Too stealthy for me.

Sounds like I'm in the balpark with my prop and engine set up.. I will continue to fine tune. Must get an aluminum prop too for georgian bay.

4 MPG sounds about right. I have the digital gages but not the command link. I should have gone for that cause I'm obsessed by fuel consumption and economy..... maybe I can fit a fuel flow meter in somehow...

As for being out in weather..... while in the 590 I was looking up at times at some of the waves out front here in Port Credit. 6 Footers I would guess at times. I would never have been out in the Cherokee in that. The only other boat out there was peel regional police in their 733 and they did not stay out long. I got soaked, pounded and sore from hanging on. I had a blast.

I'm starting to feel the love....

Thanks for your help and hope to meet in person someday. I'll buy the first few rounds !

Cheers, Dave

captnjack · 28 September 2009, 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidoodog

This brings me to my question. I have a Yamaha F150 on the boat. Lots of power and quiet. It has a new top end so I have just recently been pushing it a bit speed wise.

This is really your problem. The boat is too light for the speeds you are trying to achieve and you are planning "too much". Flying leads to chine walking since there isn't enough boat in the water to resist slight lateral deviations.

Trim the motor down or lower it to put more boat/skeg in the water - and back off a little.

Stoo · 28 September 2009, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnjack

- and back off a little.

Pwaw... Where's the fun in that?

Seriously though, these boats are a bit like dump trucks in that are designed to carry a lot of stuff. The problem is that when you don't have a lot of stuff in them, they are very light compared to the horsies hanging on the back.

I usually have so much stuff in mine, that chine walking isn't a huge issue, but I can see getting tossed out of the boat if you aren't careful!

skidoodog · 28 September 2009, 22:22

Yes indeed..... I have a small label next to my speedo that says simply "go Faster".

Life is short so why waste time?

Am off the water for a week while the custom cover gets fitted... Have to look after the investment.

Stoo, Another question....

I'm tidying up details now. I'm looking to insure this boat and the couple of names I pulled of the net won't or cant insure this boat. Any hints ?

Cheers,

Dave

Stoo · 29 September 2009, 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidoodog

I'm looking to insure this boat...

Funny you should ask... You might find this thread of interest...

http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?...ight=insurance

I insure my stuff (two houses, three cars, and the boat) all with State Farm. They have been really good about it all along... just be aware of the liability issues I mention in the other thread.

If you want the name of the actual agent I use, PM me and I would be happy to pass it along. He's just the other side of Hamilton, so not far from you...

S

skidoodog · 29 September 2009, 01:56

Thanks Stoo,

Thats exacly the advice I needed. I will follow up tomorow.

Cheers, Dave

Stoo · 29 September 2009, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by skidoodog

I have a small label next to my speedo that says simply "go Faster".

Please clarify if you are talking about the gauge on your boat or your bathing suit!

Rigaud · 30 September 2009, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnjack

This is really your problem. The boat is too light for the speeds you are trying to achieve and you are planning "too much". Flying leads to chine walking since there isn't enough boat in the water to resist slight lateral deviations.

Trim the motor down or lower it to put more boat/skeg in the water - and back off a little.

I 100% diagree.

I have a Bombard Explorer 6m with a Yamy 2 stroke 150 and the boat does have a 5" pad on the hull by the way. I'm originally from the fast boat world so my setup may be different from most here.

Prop dia. , cup, rake and shape will have a huge impact on your boats handling. 15" dia. on a 150 is pretty big for your setup and weight and guys with dual 300 Merc outboards on Skater hulls boats use between 14.5 to 15 inch dia. props, I'll bet you that's a major problem right there. Everyone I know who's strictly into recreational boating kept telling me a cleaver prop doesn't work on a rib and can't jack up the motor. I got one last year a 21" pitch but it was a 14-1/4" dia. and my LU is the small 4" so didn't clear the cavitation plate. I got it cut down to 13-7/8 and it chine walked like crazy no matter how I trimmed. Basicly it was too much prop, so off to my prop guy to cut it down again and shape. Got it back on the water and wow now we had something going pretty good but not 100%. I jacked up the motor to the top which gives me 3" below the pad (prop shaft / pad). Now I go up on plane in 1-1/2 boat lenghts alone or about 2 boat lenghts with 3 people. Top speed is 55 mpg so far on GPS but then I'm reving near or slightly above the limiter which is disconnected. The boat will chine walk a little which is normal with a V hull but once I get it up on the pad it ride on it like on a rail and tubes in the rear out the water.

If you could snap a pic of the hull from behind and post it might be of help too.

captnjack · 30 September 2009, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rigaud

I 100% diagree.

I have a Bombard Explorer 6m with a Yamy 2 stroke 150 and the boat does have a 5" pad on the hull by the way. I'm originally from the fast boat world so my setup may be different from most here.

Prop dia. , cup, rake and shape will have a huge impact on your boats handling. 15" dia. on a 150 is pretty big for your setup and weight and guys with dual 300 Merc outboards on Skater hulls boats use between 14.5 to 15 inch dia. props, I'll bet you that's a major problem right there. Everyone I know who's strictly into recreational boating kept telling me a cleaver prop doesn't work on a rib and can't jack up the motor. I got one last year a 21" pitch but it was a 14-1/4" dia. and my LU is the small 4" so didn't clear the cavitation plate. I got it cut down to 13-7/8 and it chine walked like crazy no matter how I trimmed. Basicly it was too much prop, so off to my prop guy to cut it down again and shape. Got it back on the water and wow now we had something going pretty good but not 100%. I jacked up the motor to the top which gives me 3" below the pad (prop shaft / pad). Now I go up on plane in 1-1/2 boat lenghts alone or about 2 boat lenghts with 3 people. Top speed is 55 mpg so far on GPS but then I'm reving near or slightly above the limiter which is disconnected. The boat will chine walk a little which is normal with a V hull but once I get it up on the pad it ride on it like on a rail and tubes in the rear out the water.

If you could snap a pic of the hull from behind and post it might be of help too.

Sure and that super cupped prop on a raised o/b is going to have a lousy hole shot when the boat is fully loaded. Its going to slip and cativate like mad and generally suck. And running on the pad in any kind of seas will slam you out of the boat.

Most of us don't buy RIBs in lieu of a hydroplane.

Rigaud · 01 October 2009, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnjack

Sure and that super cupped prop on a raised o/b is going to have a lousy hole shot when the boat is fully loaded. Its going to slip and cativate like mad and generally suck. And running on the pad in any kind of seas will slam you out of the boat.

Most of us don't buy RIBs in lieu of a hydroplane.

Cleaver props are not super cupped they have stern lift but any SS prop can be fine tuned by a prop shop you just have to let him know the details. Hydroplanes don't have a running pad.

I didn't say to set up like me and I mentioned his chine walking most likely has to do with the prop size and type. I'll let you help him out, I'll just go along now.

Cheers
John

prairie tuber · 04 October 2009, 01:01

This has been a great thread with alot of useful info so far, hopefully that info will continue to flow even if there are different viewpoints.

Stoo · 04 October 2009, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

This has been a great thread with alot of useful info so far, hopefully that info will continue to flow even if there are different viewpoints.

Speaking of SIBS... I remember my little Futura GT with a 40 on the back... No chine walk, but that puppy had about 1 square inch in the water when it was cracked open. It was more like straddling a missile! I miss that little boat sometimes (especially at the fuel pump...)