Zodiac 733 rebuild

[ncp]

I think , all on all, it depends on your objectives. Either all the way forward, or all the way back will give you the most room to work with. A couple of feet can make a big difference though. There have been times where my girlfriend has been sitting in front of the console and it's gotten rough. Moving just the 3 ft back and standing next to me makes a big difference.

With that said, the middle seems like a good compromise in my Willard. Two people can still sleep up in from (I'm 6'4), and there's room in back.

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

Would anybody have any suggestions on how far forward I can (or should) move the console before it gets to a point where the ride is less nice for the guy driving? I'm thinking now that maybe ill just chop the low section off the front of the console and move it up that much, 2' forward. That would makes for a larger back passenger area and better deck space. The alternative is to cut a foot or so out so its more proper bench size. Either way I want it have the front of the console open big to access below decks storage.

"Larger passenger area to the rear"
Are you going to get rid of the storage box and go with a flat deck? Plenty of room aft then for a bench seat for that.

This guy in North Carolina took out the box, added a standard leaning post and bench seat behind:
http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....8&d=1322518201

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

Yeah. I've seen the dive models with the console all the way up so i know it can be done. I was wondering if there was a noticeable subjective difference in the ride as I move forward. The front usually tries to bounce you out and it gets more mellow as you move back.

I was in the dive model all weekend - Catalina/Santa Barbara Island trip. Yes, it can be very rough up there depending on how you drive!

The console was WAY forward like this:
http://www.rib.net/forum/attachment....4&d=1237301645

But, I've read that by putting the operator as far up as possible, it makes them more aware of how they are driving. If they put he operator in back, he's doesn't feel the bumps the same way and tends to beat the crap out of the passengers who in this case would be the insertion team, etc.

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

The front of these boats just have a lot of toe breakers up there. I might try to pull some of the tie down loops but I think the lifting eyes stay and everything else protruding pales in comparison.

I stub my toes ALL the time!!! 99% of the time I'm barefoot or in flip flop. Besides the stuff up in front, I have the inside row of bolts to contend with. I don't remember, do you have the Zodiac hull where the bolts are down or Willard style where they're horizontal? I would love to have my bolts facing down...

[Bigtalljv]

ok, I have typed up a couple responses and it comes down to seating and storage. I have two conflicting seating issues. I will use the boat to free and scuba dive off of and also tube on lakes with the family and family friends.

For diving related activities I would like plenty of deck space and seating for max of 4 or 5 passengers. In diving we'll be in rougher conditions and I suspect that the front of the boat is not were people will want to be. For tubing i need comfy seating for up to 8-10. For lake days with lots of people I would like something like my current RIB that has a large raised padded area in the front 1/3 or more of the deck. Everyone sprawls on it like a big couch.

I need storage for spearguns that are about 6' long. I would like some below decks storage to put fish in fish-bags. I have moved away from space for a very large cooler or a built in one as fish bags sound popular and it's not an every weekend thing.

I would like to have a leaning post with space for a cooler and/or tank racks. I would like tank storage somewhere if not there.

I would like a more substantial boarding ladder. I have considered a flip up bench in the back. I have read that marine grade beanbags are popular in some circles.

I would like all of that in one boat.

So I guess you all have helped me make progress, I have a list of what I want. The slate just got less blank.

You got any more pictures of the boat in No. Carolina?

Jason

[ncp]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

I need storage for spearguns that are about 6' long. I would like some below decks storage to put fish in fish-bags. I have moved away from space for a very large cooler or a built in one as fish bags sound popular and it's not an every weekend thing.

I would like to have a leaning post with space for a cooler and/or tank racks. I would like tank storage somewhere if not there.

I would like a more substantial boarding ladder. I have considered a flip up bench in the back. I have read that marine grade beanbags are popular in some circles.

You got any more pictures of the boat in No. Carolina?

Jason

He was selling it last year:
http://www.rib.net/forum/f21/1994-wi...tml#post431867
Note that some of the pictures in the ad don't show everything (i.e. one pic shows the spear gun racks, one pic doesn't. Also, the swim step and the rear bench doesn't appear in the ad, but the attached picture does)

I love the functionality of that hard top but I wonder about weight. Surfboards on top, spearguns stowed underneath, extra tanks on the back, etc.

[Bigtalljv]

put a little glass on the transom hole. Have a bit of sanding to do.

Jason

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by ncp

But, I've read that by putting the operator as far up as possible, it makes them more aware of how they are driving. If they put he operator in back, he's doesn't feel the bumps the same way and tends to beat the crap out of the passengers who in this case would be the insertion team, etc.

Hmmm. As a boat driver, who cares?

Seriously, when things get rough, I worry not just about passengers comfort, but abuse of the boat. I have throttled way back from how I used to drive; enough so that even my passengers have started thanking me for taking it easy. Not sure if that's really good or bad though...


jky

[Troy]

My boat has a rear bias console, yesterday I did a 60 Nm run through 1/2 meter short sharp confused chop at 30 Kts. I would have said that the ride was excellent and effort was about 3 out of 10.

[Bigtalljv]

exciting pictures (to me). This is what my transom looks like without a huge hole in it!!

Jason

[Bigtalljv]

well I got some crushing news today that explains why not so many people have done the OB conversion. the material needed to make the OB bracket was about twice as expensive as I was expecting. Sigh, I have to stop focusing on the quote and focus on the difference, it's a lot but less than the whole....

Anybody got some spare 1/2" 5086 aluminum plate laying around?

Jason

[ncp]

Fiberglass? Ryan Pratts guy is ~$3k for a full flotation bracket. Though, I bet you could do it yourself. You seems pretty handy, you have the yard space, and you already know how to work with fiberglass.

[Bigtalljv]

i actually emailed Ryan's guy and unfortunately they were one (or two) off molds. Also being on opposite sides of the country didn't make it sound like a good option.

Building something like that out of fiberglass is above my pay grade. I don't know what I am doing with fiberglass, I am just faking it. It's one thing to patch a hole, it's another to fabricate a custom molded engine bracket.

Finding a local guy to fabricate one out of fiberglass won't save me anything over the AL one.

Like I said, I see why this isn't done more often. Boy I wish I had a job with overtime....

Jason

[Bigtalljv]

so anybody here really good on aluminum? One of the problem with the Zodiac bracket is they spec 5086 aluminum. The 1/2" plate of that is $1100. Curious if anybody can give me a reasonable answer if I can substitute 5052 for that? I know it's "less" strong but is it strong enough? I can guess that the Zodiac design is the strongest thing in the world but can I live with a little less?

[RyanPratt]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

so anybody here really good on aluminum? One of the problem with the Zodiac bracket is they spec 5086 aluminum. The 1/2" plate of that is $1100. Curious if anybody can give me a reasonable answer if I can substitute 5052 for that? I know it's "less" strong but is it strong enough? I can guess that the Zodiac design is the strongest thing in the world but can I live with a little less?

You need to think long and hard when you try to save money on a build and determine if the money is for form, function or structure. I would say Structure should never be skimped. you can do with less but then you are working on borrowed time. What you save now will cost you 2-3x in the long run.

[Bigtalljv]

The point I was trying to make is just how overbuilt is the bracket? If it's reasonable to assume that the bracket needs to be strong enough to take force X and the bracket is built to withstand 20X then is 15X enough? I don't want to skimp but I also don't want to pay for extra capacity that will never come into play.

We can make hulls with 1/2" of glass instead of a 1/4" and it would be stronger but we don't. At some point the extra strength is just wasted money. I don't know how we can determine what that point is. that's what marine engineering people do (I assume) and I don't know any.

If my bracket fails and my engine falls in the deep it's going to cost a bit more than 3x :-) so I do realize what I am asking.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

Anybody got some spare 1/2" 5086 aluminum plate laying around?

1/2"??? What are you going to hang on it, a space shuttle booster?

1/4" plate will do fine, if you design it right; rigid box section with a couple of ribs should be enough for any single outboard out right now.Twins as well with a bit more bracing.

jky

Edit:I'll see if I can get some pics of mine tomorrow.

[Bigtalljv]

It's the zodiac bracket plans. I think it was 5/16" mounting plate, 3/8 sides and top, 1/2" engine mounting plate, and 1/4" side gusset plates. It's a monster hence my questions. I see most commercial ones are 1/4 all around with an extra 1/4 where the engine bolts go. What I don't know is what grade they use though.

[jyasaki]

5200 series (5052 to be specific) is "normal" marine stuff. 6061 is fairly commonly used; less corrosion resistance, but may be OK with a decent surface treatment.

Aluminium alloy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Guide to Buying Aluminum Online | Online Metals Guide to Selecting Metals for Your Project

Personally, I'd go for 5052; make sure you can weld the stuff (thickish aluminum apparently takes a pretty hefty welder to get adequate penetration.)

Sorry, forgot to take pics yesterday.

jky

[Bigtalljv]

yeah, I've been doing a lot of reading too. I have mostly come to realize that this question cannot or should not be asked. It' can't be answered appropriately.

5052 is the standard in the bracket industry and a lot of the marine industry. 5068 is "new" in the last 20-30 years and is a stronger version. 25% stronger, "better" corrosion resistance. It's the go to material for larger and higher end aluminum hulls. It's very rare and very expensive.

Jason

[jyasaki]

You need to think about cost vs performance. Just because there's a material that is "better" doesn't make the material that is adequate any less adequate.

Unobtanium has been in use on race motorcycles for years, and off the shelf street bikes still work just fine...

jky

[Bigtalljv]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Just because there's a material that is "better" doesn't make the material that is adequate any less adequate.
jky

You said it perfectly. I will be stealing your line.

Jason

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

You said it perfectly. I will be stealing your line.

There's a licensing fee...