£15k - which used 4 door saloon?

[Richard B]

Hi Daniel! Yep, I wished I'd gone for the v70 instead of the Merc - would have been a lot more fun!

[Markyboyo]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Max, I don't believe that autos have dual mass flywheels, or have I misunderstood and is that the reason you want an auto? Anyway, I've always been more concerned about having a cam chain rather than a poly V-belt, like in my old 1976 Saab 99 which was my best car ever, until...

My Calibra 24v which was written off by a blue-van-driver in 2006, and then my E46 BMW 330i M-sport coupe, which is better still!

As mentioned the 3.0 is super-smooth. But not expensive to insure, I'm paying about £330/yr with Bell for fully comp. Does about 25mpg and I floor it everywhere.

Handling is fantastic. I don't think they fitted runflats until the E90 series arrived in 2006 but I could be wrong! Also the chassis and handling upgrade came in 2001 with a mild facelift in 2004 which gave LED rear lights and a slightly re-shaped front lights, bonnet, wings and side repeaters, but no chassis or suspension change as far as I know.

My worst ever cars were the Sierra 1.8TD (although the two Mondeos I've had subsequently have been faultless) and the Mercedes E280. I'm not mentioning the Rover 114.

I don't think that petrols automatically cost more to insure either. I'm 30 and think £410 in a BMW with no roof capable of 0-60 in 5.8 secs and has a limited top end of 155 is pretty reasonable compared to the 230 I pay for a 11 year old octavia diesel.

I'm still undecided as to go diesel or petrol for my next everyday driver/towcar. It only does about 6k per year and you only need a new turbo and DMF (both more likely to fail subjected to regular towing) to wipe out 5 years of diesel savings.

There is definitely a growing camp that have cottoned onto the growing repair costs of modern diesels with injectors, fuel pumps, flywheels and turbos all being weak points.

Increasing numbers of cars, both petrol and diesel are now going twin turbo with twice the chance of a failure and if the down wind turbo fails it will almost probably damage the other one too. At the same time I wonder what the reliability of a VAG turbo and supercharged petrol TSI motor with a DSG box will be like in 6 years time?!

Back on track though.....15k will get you into a 2007/8 330i or a similar age 320d. Be careful as the 320d exists in 163 and 177bhp guises around that age and the later 177 model has considerably better mpg and CO2. Combined mpg on a 330i of this age is a whisker short of 40 which is impressive for 272bhp & 0-60 in 6 secs dead. I'd drive both before making my mind up!

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by Markyboyo

Back on track though.....15k will get you into a 2007/8 330i or a similar age 320d. Be careful as the 320d exists in 163 and 177bhp guises around that age and the later 177 model has considerably better mpg and CO2. Combined mpg on a 330i of this age is a whisker short of 40 which is impressive for 272bhp & 0-60 in 6 secs dead. I'd drive both before making my mind up!

Disagree re a whisker short of 40mpg in a 330i. Sat at 75 on the motorway it averages 30, 80mph and its under, around town, less again. You wont average 40. Ive driven two examples and you just can't.

some of the current 320ds are 184bhp too, and I average between 50-60mpg over 100mile round trips of varied driving regularly. So your fuel bill would be double that in a 330i, but granted very smooth and a bit quicker. Though if you were that bit quicker, mpg would be close to 20mpg

[chewy]

What about a Jan XJ diesel or a XJR....

[Max...]

Thanks chaps - I'm always wary of quoted MPG figures and I agree with Honest John who always states to use the 'urban' figure as the 'everyday' average rather than the lab test optimism of the combined!

As a guide I would hate to be getting less than 30 mpg so the bigger petrols will be out I'm sure.

If I'm looking at a 2008 model what *exactly* are the engine choices in petrol (4 cyl/6cyl) and diesel for the sub 250 hp models? - I definitely don't need more than that but still confused by the 318/320/330 etc thing!

[Zagato]

Originally Posted by Max...

Thanks chaps - I'm always wary of quoted MPG figures and I agree with Honest John who always states to use the 'urban' figure as the 'everyday' average rather than the lab test optimism of the combined!

The LR are ones are accurate i.e. combined of 27 mpg for a Defender The dash board read outs are reputedly never very accurate on cars!

[Max...]

Funny you should say that - 27mpg is exactly what I got on a 700 mile straight drive down to the Dordogne one day this summer in my 300Tdi, not too bad for a 2.5 ton barn on wheels at a steady 60 - 65 mph.

[Markyboyo]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

Disagree re a whisker short of 40mpg in a 330i. Sat at 75 on the motorway it averages 30, 80mph and its under, around town, less again. You wont average 40. Ive driven two examples and you just can't.

some of the current 320ds are 184bhp too, and I average between 50-60mpg over 100mile round trips of varied driving regularly. So your fuel bill would be double that in a 330i, but granted very smooth and a bit quicker. Though if you were that bit quicker, mpg would be close to 20mpg

I run a 2005 3.0i Z4 and see about 35-6 mpg on the motorway at a steady 70-75, overall average is 32-33. My Neighbour has a 2002 E46 330i touring and he gets between 29-31 in mixed use. Both use the old M54 engine introduced around 99/00.

I would have thought the newer magnesium block N52 introduced in 2005 with longer gearing and valve-tronic would have improved things (it added about 2mpg to the post 2006 facelift z4) before they then introduced ED and direct injection in 2008.

Folks on pistonheads with the 08 on 330i quote between 35-37 average with a few claiming over 40 on a motorway run. Did you reset the computer before you drove it? If it only does 30 then it seems like BMW petrols have made little progress in the past 10+ years

Max, the 318i & 320i in the E90 is a 2.0 4 pot. The 325i is a 2.5 6 pot and 330i and 335i are 3.0 6 pots.
Similar story in the diesels, 318 and 320d are both 2.0 4 pot, 325/330/335 are all 3.0 6 pot.

Mark.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Max...

Thanks chaps - I'm always wary of quoted MPG figures and I agree with Honest John who always states to use the 'urban' figure as the 'everyday' average rather than the lab test optimism of the combined!!

I reckon that's a bit harsh, unless you're always in town. My calcs (and sadly I keep l lots of them!) suggest halfway between the urban and combined for normal use, rising to close to the combined for long motorway trips at reasonable speeds. If you do 100mph constantly on the motorway, you'll be back down to the urban figure! (Allegedly).

Originally Posted by Max...

If I'm looking at a 2008 model what *exactly* are the engine choices in petrol (4 cyl/6cyl) and diesel for the sub 250 hp models? - I definitely don't need more than that but still confused by the 318/320/330 etc thing!

You can't quotes facts and figures without all the exact details... and if you're talking Beemers, then 2008 was the cutover year when the "Efficient Dynamics" models were introduced. This made a huge difference to both fuel consumption and emissions, except for the 335i (3.0 twin turbo) which remained focussed on performance and delivery of maximum torque from 1300rpm... but you don't want that much fun do you? . If you look at BMW approved used cars from a franchised dealer they'll tell you the CO2 and therefore the engine type so you can check either Parkers or the DVLA site with the official figures.

[cyberstoker]

Does a Range Rover count as a Saloon ?

[Markyboyo]

Another reason for the 335i being a guzzler is the motor is based on the much older M54 design rather than the newer N52 magnesium block.

Coming right out of left field.....how about a Skoda Superb?? They have received great praise in all the tests I have read with refinement to match a 5 series. Somewhere I read it's quieter at 70 than a bentley. I dunno how useful it would actually be but the twin-door boot lid is pretty funky.

2009 Skoda Superb Hatchback 5-Dr 1968 cc 2.0 TDI CR Elegance DSG (170 BHP)

[Richard B]

Uh? the M54 is what's in my E46 330i. It's the N54 that's in the E90 335i, and with the greatest of respect dear chap, it's the clever bits, not the the block that gives most of the performance and economy attributes. The twin-scroll turbo on the new engine, the N55, is supposed to be the main factor. However it loses some of the flexibility and not a popular for after-market tuning.

[Markyboyo]

Reading around a bit more you're right Richard. I must have picked up the wrong idea from some where on the net, I'm sure I read that it lacked the direct injection of the N52.
Am I right in thinking that the N54 just uses an alloy block with cast iron liners like the M54 (E46/Z4) rather than being Magnesium Alloy like the N52?

1st time I had the Z4 serviced by a local specialist I told them I had bought it as a keeper and they expressed the opinion that a well looked after M54 will probably outlive the later 3.0 engines. They had 3 E46's between the two of them, 330i, 330ci and a 330touring

Mate has just bought a E46 330cd which has been mapped to about 240. (I think it was the 203bhp originally?). Goes like stink but it just lacks a bit of the "soul" of the petrol 3L IMO.

Mark.

[Max...]

Thanks all - really then the decision comes down to diesel vs petrol - for me with a very probable less than 5000 a year (maybe far less) it may be worth going for a 325 or even 330 petrol, the 320i seems a poorer relation to the 320d - which is the one model that seems to stand out from the range even though it is a more 'ordinary' model - but the whole price/performance/mpg/tax of the 320d is a seemingly unbeatable combo.

I need to get out there and drive them all...

[Markyboyo]

Agreed! You gotta drive em all to decide!

[Max...]

Have been looking into this a bit more and the 5 might be a better bet after all (size/ value/comfort etc) - got a nice surprise on the insurance, we've got an Admiral multi car policy and I phoned for a quote to swap the old 2002 1.6 Focus to a 2008 525i or 530i and either will only be an extra £150 a year, thought it would be far worse.

[Markyboyo]

I use Admiral multi-car too and have found them to be excellent value. Managing to insure two cars for about £600 when I was 28 was good enough before you even considered one was group 19 (on the 1-20 scale) too.
One of my friends has just sold his 1999 535i V8 with 270k on the clock and is looking for an E60 540 or 545i now! I've tried to steer him into a 530 but he is V8 obsessed!