Avoiding Car Tax

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Lots of 4x4's are not the biggest cars on the road nor are they all the most polluting or the most uneconomical, by far. The tree huggers' paranoia has given him an opportunity to screw us for more.
Agreed, Tim.

JW - although the press are describing it as a tax on 4x4s - my understanding it is based on exceeding a threshold value of CO2 emissions per mile, rahter than the physical size of the vehicle or transmission type per se. Now there are no doubt arguments that this is not necessarily the best indicator of pollution - but since the world seems most concerned with CO2 - it actually seems a reasonable measure.

However the difference between the bands in terms of tax is so insignificant that it has virtually no influence on someone buying a car.

[Bigmuz7]

Its total bollox. I have a 30 tonner that costs me £650 a year to tax, and does an average of 7.5 mpg, and does around 250 km per day so now my 4x4 is going to cost me almost as much ?.... sorry no parity there at all. The car tax is a pure con and a stealth tax on wealth for peeps that can afford a 4x4 ... nothing else

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Polwart

JW - although the press are describing it as a tax on 4x4s - my understanding it is based on exceeding a threshold value of CO2 emissions per mile, rahter than the physical size of the vehicle or transmission type per se.

Thanks for that Mr.P. I usually check things out before commenting... that'll teach me.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Simon B

P.S. Fire engines seem to have engines that are too big as well...

Not when your house is on fire

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by bedajim

Not when your house is on fire

Or when they are hauling 2 tonnes of water around with them

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Or when they are hauling 2 tonnes of water around with them

I hope they bring a bit more than that to my house if I have a fire, Nos.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by jwalker

I hope they bring a bit more than that to my house if I have a fire, Nos.

I was thinking of Sausages and burgers JW

Sorry couldn't resist

Well my Kia 4x4 will only cost me the same as it always did and I'm relived about that, as £100 or £200 would be noticed in my house hold. But in a few years time I'll feel the pinch of the TAX when I upgrade or replace my car. I think Biggles is right when he says it won't stop there.

Stealth tax.....If I were in government enviromental tax would be done at source and passed down. It's much fairer to put petrol or diesel up than road tax as it's pay-as-you-go.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by jwalker

I hope they bring a bit more than that to my house if I have a fire, Nos.

According to google that's what they carry as an onboard reserve-1800 to 2200 litres of water.. The water carriers apparently carry 8000 litres.

[Sixy_the_red]

It irritates me to hear the press talking about the 'tax on 4x4s'. As has already been said, it has NOTHING to do with transmission configuration and everything to do with CO2 output.

Of course it's actually socialist propoganda because even if we all stopped using internal combustion powered personal transport tomorrow, the UK's net CO2 production would only go down by about 2%. When you consider that the UK produces something like 2% of the entire world's CO2...

[Douglas]

Our beloved Gordon has cocked up so much, and it is only now that people are beginning to wake up.

Sold our Gold reserve at a low price
Robbed the pension funds
Fueled the huge property boom
Made the tax system so complicated that no one understands it any more.

As an example I have just received in the post a card entitling me to free prescriptions, free NHS Dental treatment (If you can find a dentist!) and a free wig. Yes that last bit is true!

Why do I find this funny? Well, I own 15 houses outright, am extremely well off but because of Gordons daft system can employ expensive accountants to avoid his stupid taxes. I just feel really sorry for people on PAYE.

In the past I have always paid my share but if the idiot introduces loopholes he obviously wants me to use them. Anyway the money would only be wasted killing inocents in illegal wars!

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Douglas

Why do I find this funny?.... ...Anyway the money would only be wasted killing inocents in illegal wars!

Douglas, you're a bit too close to the feckin truth there.

[mdt]

Originally Posted by Hightower

Stealth tax.....

Could we all stop referring to this as a "stealth tax" it is about as stealthy as a bull elephant with a gammy leg.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Sixy_the_red

It irritates me to hear the press talking about the 'tax on 4x4s'. As has already been said, it has NOTHING to do with transmission configuration and everything to do with CO2 output.

No it isn't. I posted earlier about the fact that it costs me 200 quid extra to tax a 30 tonner over what a 4x4 will cost, which chucks out a shed load more co2 because of its poorer consumption and high mileage than my next door neighbours 4x4 will ever do! So how does the 'green' chancellor balance that ? Its complete mince to suggest that a 4x4 is worthy of a tax hike to this level. Its a taxation robbery, another example of us being taxed to be green, and pay, whilst the rest of the world pollutes at free will

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

No it isn't. I posted earlier about the fact that it costs me 200 quid extra to tax a 30 tonner over what a 4x4 will cost, which chucks out a shed load more co2 because of its poorer consumption and high mileage than my next door neighbours 4x4 will ever do! So how does the 'green' chancellor balance that ? Its complete mince to suggest that a 4x4 is worthy of a tax hike to this level. Its a taxation robbery, another example of us being taxed to be green, and pay, whilst the rest of the world pollutes at free will

We're talking about car tax not HGV tax though. Car drivers don't blockade refineries when they get pissed off (more's the shame).

Besides,if you look at the weight moved for fuel consumed, while your 30 tonner is doing approx 225 mpg/tonne loaded a Disco is doing around 40 mpg/tonne.

Bet you'd never seen an argument for a truck being more fuel efficient than a car before

We're all agreed that this tax rise is a pisstake though.

[Bigmuz7]

YIK , I was just highlighting the massively heavier polluting power of an HGV for not a lot more tax. So the CO2 per £ of road tax is heavily distorted.

That said, the tax used to be higher before the fuel protests of 2000. And if anything it confirms the whimsical nature of government policy in setting any road tax at a notional fee as they see fit

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

That said, the tax used to be higher before the fuel protests of 2000. And if anything it confirms the whimsical nature of government policy in setting any road tax at a notional fee as they see fit

Thats the annoying thing and its what makes you realise they are chasing votes.

[Swifty]

Just checked out the Co2 for my TDI300 Disco.
248g/Km.
Now at 30 mpg that equals 48.3 KM/pg which is 10.6 km/L

Now for every 0.09 Litres (1 Km) it produces 248 gramms of Co2, then that equates to 2755 gramms of Co2 per litre. 90 litre tank = 247950 gramms. or 247Kg of Co2.
Since when has 90 litres of fuel (approx 70-80 Kg) generated 247Kg of gas ontop of propelling a 2 tonne car 1000 metres???

Unless someone can spot a flaw in the maths it doesn't add up.

Wonder what their graphs would make of my triple carbed 2 stroke guzzling 100 litres...

[Nos4r2]

Oxygen has weight. <edit>Ok, Mass.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Swifty

Just checked out the Co2 for my TDI300 Disco.
248g/Km.
Now at 30 mpg that equals 48.3 KM/pg which is 10.6 km/L

Now for every 0.09 Litres (1 Km) it produces 248 gramms of Co2, then that equates to 2755 gramms of Co2 per litre. 90 litre tank = 247950 gramms. or 247Kg of Co2.
Since when has 90 litres of fuel (approx 70-80 Kg) generated 247Kg of gas ontop of propelling a 2 tonne car 1000 metres???

Unless someone can spot a flaw in the maths it doesn't add up.

Wonder what their graphs would make of my triple carbed 2 stroke guzzling 100 litres...

I think you forgot that CO2 is made up from one atom of carbon (coming from the fuel) plus two atoms of oxygen coming from the air. only about 27% of the mass of co2 your car produces comes from the fuel (since C weighs 12 g/mole and O weighs 16 g/mole and there are 2 O atoms per molecule of CO2)

Therefore these numbers are about right... the fuel also contains H atoms but they only weigh a fraction of the carbon content of the fuel.

Does that make sense - if not I'll waffle on for hours explaining it in more detail.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Oxygen has weight. <edit>Ok, Mass.

Hehe its a good challenge that.. At the birth of my first child, the nurse mentioned how dangerous oxygen was, thats why they keep it in cages out side..she said .. I was at lengths to explain that it wasnt flammable, but she said it was , now I dont like to doubt a professional but I had to take this one up and explain that things burn in it, and its required for combustion, but it its self is not flammable, as I protested , we breath the stuff !! But she wouldnt listen and she said I wouldnt know, My wife was in pain so I left it.