Avoiding Car Tax

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Spike

Your So Clever You Tell Me Why One Van Is Dearer Than The Other!!!!

I'm not trying to be clever - but i did tell you why the difference - perhaps DVLA are telling you too but you are not listening because you don't like the answer...

Your van with one row of seat is classed as a Light Goods vehicle and taxed accordingly. There is only one class of tax for light goods vehicles (currently 175/year - no idea where your numbers come from - perhaps they are pre-budget, becuase there are no tax classes at £225/yr now).

However because your other van has 5 seats in it is classed as a car for tax (and type approval?) purposes - therefore the tax IS based on emissions; if e.g. it falls into "class" G then its just gone up to £300/yr and goes up to £400/yr next year.

So as I said in a much earlier post - the more expensive vehicle is based on emissions - but effectively as the (pure) van is a "commercial vehicle" it gets a "discount".

Tell Me How The Hell Can A Compident Businessman Ignore Even £10.00 Let Alone £100.00 Of Extra Loss & As Someone Else Said This Is Just The Tip Of The Iceburg!

How much does your time cost per hour? therefore at somepoint it becomes more ecconomical to let it go...

[Spike]

Both vans ARE the SAME tax class that is why i brought them (you dont think i havent looked into this all already do you?) & DVLA have admitted this point but they cannot work out why when they put it into there system it come's out dearer, the annoying part is that they cant expain why & they wont do anything about it. They have told me that they sould be the same themselves! punch it into the system & the computer says no. I would let it go but as a man of principle i want an answer, it is there job to tell me, that is what they are paid for, much the same principle as if i came to your house & fixed your boiler....lets say a pump had gone, so i fitted one for a fixed price of £495.00+VAT (i wish) then three weeks later the one at....lets say a house you had rented out with the same boiler same problem, i come around see your tenants & charge them £235.00+VAT fitted. The next day your on the phone saying how the f##k can you charge me £235.00+VAT more for the pump in my house when it is the same & my responce is dont really know, shouldent have but i did cant explain it really, never mind get off my phone or ill call the police & say your harrasing me. You would quite rightly go to trading standards & they would be on my back & i would have to give a good reason or your money back, that is a fair conclusion i think you would agree. All i want is the people that i have paid money to ie: DVLA not my local MP or anyone else, to give a good reason why they are charging me more for the same job. If there is a problem with the system it wont go away by just 'letting it go' & it should be sorted out for everyone not just me, however if it is down to how many people can sit in the van then it is not EMMISSION's rated & they should admit to it dont you think, IT IS A MATTER OF PRINCAPLE, money & time spent dont come into it. I run & own 24hr emergency HVAC company, i work sometimes 19hr days (very common in the winter approx 5 months) & that is a 7 day week not 5, i paid £58000.00 personal TAX last year alone so dont tell me i should go & spend my time better earning money as i already do & pay dearly for it, so if i chose to spend what little time i have off in a DVLA office trying to make a point that will make eveyone else who has had the same problem as i have had a little better off who are you to tell im wasting my time or i am wrong in doing so?
Mike

[Spike]

POLWART,
Just as example i also run a 4.5ltr Porsche Cayenne S & am paying the same on tax as this bloody VW van & i know the Porsche throws out a lot more emmissions than the van which is 'euro emmission rated 4' this is just another example of the poor way this system works ie: i know the Porsche is going to cost me a lot in tax so i pay & dont moan about it, its my choice i would sell it otherwise, but van is a different story altogether........
Mike

[Bigmuz7]

Agreed

Sole purpose of government "bleed punters dry" Give minimum in return.... pay ourselves as much as we can get away with in the process..... and hope no one notices... so we can justify ourselves and our comfy existance at tax payers expense.... whilst we push paper around.. blaming others.... having afairs like John Prescott and thumbing our nose at the working man and his family

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Spike

i also run a 4.5ltr Porsche Cayenne S

Ah, That explains a lot... White vans as well?




I do agree with everything you're saying though.

[Biggles]

Thing is Matt, If you want to live in a capatalist society then if you can afford it you should ba able to buy it. Might not be your thing but if its what someone wants to work for then thats the way it should be. Gives us all something to aspire to. If GB had his way we would all be driving round on scooters but because he is more equal than us he would still have his 4 X 4. And oh yes was he seen in a large 4 x 4 convoy last week when he visited Iraq. No excuses given for increasing his carbon foot print that day.

[Spike]

Just A General Note: The Porsche Is For Sale As Although It Is Indeed A Wonderful Drive & I Cannot Fault It The Wife Only Does About 5 Miles A Week In It & At 14 Mpg Around Town Its Wasted Im Not Really Into That Sort Of Car Myself Im A Buy British Man, Lotus Had 5 Loved Um All, Not Everyones Cup'o'tea But We Cant All Like The Same Things (currently Lotus Exige) I Know Its Now Owed By Proton But My Harts In The Right Place. So When Her Porsche Is Gone She Can Have Her Next German Creation (traitor), I Will Use The Excuse To Trade Up To A Proper Boat Like Ribcraft 5.85 With A 140 Suz, Much More Fun Than A Car Anyway, Dont Matter What You Drive You Cant Go Any Faster Than The Car In Front Without Risking Licence Or Life These Days Anyhow So Just As Well Buy A Bigger Boat & A Smaller Car Untill The Powers That Be Bang On Uk Inshore Waters Users Tax!!!!! Dont Laugh It Will Come....
Mike.

[Spike]

[QUOTE=Nos4r2;196916] Ah, That explains a lot... White vans as well?

HI NOS,
NO ALL OUR VAN ARE BLACK, BUT I AGREE IT IS A F##KING STUPID CAR BUT THE WIFE WANTED AN M3 SO I BROUGHT HER ONE, THEN SHE GOT PREGNANT SO AS THERE WAS NO ROOM FOR A PRAM (OR ANTHING ELSE FOR THAT MATTER) IN THE BOOT WITH THE ROOF DOWN I WENT TO SELL IT HOWEVER AS WITH ALL BIG DUMB GERMAN CARS IN 8 MONTHS IT HAD LOST £14000.00! & THE ONLY GARAGE THAT OFFERED GOOD MONEY ON IT WAS PORSCHE SO YOU CANT GET SODALL IN A 911 (HAD ONE I KNOW) WE GOT STICHED INTO A CAYENNE. HAD IT TWO YEARS NOW & HAS'ENT MISSED A BEAT, GREAT DRIVE AQUIRED TASTE THOUGH DIDENT LIKE THE LOOK OF IT WHEN GOT IT BUT IT HAS GROWN ON ME (V10 VW VERSION BETTER!) TOLD HER ID BUY HER A TOP OF THE RANGE SMART CAR (IT'S GERMAN!) & GET A BIG RIB (FOR THE FAMILY OF COURSE) BUT SHE STARTED TO GO RED & LOOK FOR HER BARISTERS NUMBER SO I THOUGHT ID LEAVE IT TO HER TO CHOOSE!
MIKE.

[Spike]

NOS,
JUST READ THAT ADD IN DETAIL, & IF WE ARE BEING HONEST IT WAYS THAT CAR UP WELL, WHERE DID YOU FIND IT? MOST PROBABLY THE FUNNY'ST THING IVE SEEN ALL YEAR (I DONT GET OUT MUCH!) WAIT TILL I SHOW THE WIFE . BUT THE MAJORITY OF LUX 4X4 ON THE MARKET TODAY ARE THE SAME, JUST A BIG WASTE OF MONEY (GRANTED SOME ARE A LOT BETTER LOOKING THOUGH), IF I WHERE TO GO AND CHOOSE A 4X4 MYSELF IT WOULD BE A JAP ONE (I KNOW ITS NOT BRITISH) BUT IVE HAD RANGE'IES & THE LIKE & ALSO HAD A MITSI WORRIOR & AS A 4X4 THE MITSI WAS BETTER/CHEAPER/COOL LOOKING & TOWED GREAT (HAD A 7M RIB THEN) THE THING NEVER WENT WRONG, SO GIVEN A CHOISE NOW......NISSAN NIVARA ADVENTURA..SORRY, CHAV I KNOW BUT YOU GOT TO DRIVE ONE TO UNDERSTAND.
MIKE.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Spike

Just as example i also run a 4.5ltr Porsche Cayenne S & am paying the same on tax as this bloody VW van & i know the Porsche throws out a lot more emmissions than the van which is 'euro emmission rated 4' this is just another example of the poor way this system works
Mike

Your Porsche will put out more emissions than the van... ...but the scale stops increasing at 250 g CO2/km and anything above that is just lumped together in class G - as a so - called gas guzzler. Its probably just as well or your Cayenne would be costing you 500 a year in tax!

Being euro 4 rated stopped for UK tax rules mattering on 1st Jan 07 - so if as you claimed in your original post that this was a 2007 registerred vehicle then that would be irrelevant.

i'm not claiming the system does work, is actually fair or encourages you to be environmentally friendly - but any system of scaled taxes has to have cutoffs and people who end up on one group rather than the other will moan about it.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Spike

Both vans ARE the SAME tax class that is why i brought them (you dont think i havent looked into this all already do you?)
& DVLA have admitted this point but they cannot work out why when they put it into there system it come's out dearer, the annoying part is that they cant expain why & they wont do anything about it.

well your original post implied it IS related to the seats making them different - therefore seems reasonable to assume they are NOT the same tax class.

Whilst civil servants are not known for being proactive or necessarily going out of their way to be helpful - I am surprised they aren't willing to investigate if their is an Admin error - IF they are the same tax class on the V5 UNLESS OF COURSE YOU HAVE GONE IN SHOUTING AND SCREEMING LIKE YOU DID HERE.

Sorry - I assumed you were looking for an explanation/discussion (this being a discussion forum) as to WHY the two virtually identical vehicles might be being treated differently - rather than just looking for somewhere to rant - JK prefers you to take that to www.wtf.com .

All i want is the people that i have paid money to ie: DVLA not my local MP or anyone else, to give a good reason why they are charging me more for the same job. If there is a problem with the system it wont go away by just 'letting it go' & it should be sorted out for everyone not just me,

I agree - if there is an error the DVLA are the people to sort it out. But i still suspect there is no error - just an artefact of complicated rules.

however if it is down to how many people can sit in the van then it is not EMMISSION's rated & they should admit to it dont you think,

You are reading the headlines not the rules....

...see here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...le/DG_10012524

what you need to do is find how they divide the Tax Class (TC) between TC49, TC39, TC36.

[/QUOTE]

[Spike]

Ok F##k IT, ill bang the £100.00 on the next customers bill.....but then ill have to pay extra tax on that too so ill have to charge even more than the £100.00 to make it up so im not out of pocket & as our goverment see's fit to put me in the 40% tax bracket, to get my original £100.00 back ill have to charge the best part of £200 inc vat to brake even!!!!! SO THERE IS ONLY ONE WINNER & IT IS NOT THE AVERAGE JO IS IT!!!! so the system stinks & tomorrow? well it will only get worse the longer the public let um get away with it who knows what will happen, i feel sorry for my kids, what a great country they are growing up in......well used to be! We where once world leaders in Industry/Innovation now we are the world leaders of Benifit/Taxation/Immigration. Labour brought in unions & destroyed our heavy industry/export now they are seeking to brake the common man to.....
This is only my opinion & this is the way i see it....my expirience started as an apprentice boiler maker for a ship yard that no longer exists....
Mike

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Spike

Ok F##k IT, ill bang the £100.00 on the next customers bill.....but then ill have to pay extra tax on that too so ill have to charge even more than the £100.00 to make it up so im not out of pocket & as our goverment see's fit to put me in the 40% tax bracket, to get my original £100.00 back ill have to charge the best part of £200 inc vat to brake even!!!!! SO THERE IS ONLY ONE WINNER & IT IS NOT THE AVERAGE JO IS IT!!!!

You don't do any work for government departments/agencies/buildings do you? Would seem like a good opportunity for "cost recovery".

This is only my opinion & this is the way i see it....my expirience started as an apprentice boiler maker for a ship yard that no longer exists....
Mike

yeah - but with a tax bill of £58k p.a., a rib and cayenne your obviously not doing too badly for yourself either

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Polwart

You don't do any work for government departments/agencies/buildings do you? Would seem like a good opportunity for "cost recovery".

Some of that is my money! Why should I finance part of Spike's road fund licence?

[Biggles]

Would seem like a classic case of 'Devide and Conquer'

We are all fighting amongst ourselves whilst GB sits in his castle counting his pennies.

[Bigmuz7]

This is only my opinion & this is the way i see it....my expirience started as an apprentice boiler maker for a ship yard that no longer exists....
Mike

Originally Posted by Polwart

yeah - but with a tax bill of £58k p.a., a rib and cayenne your obviously not doing too badly for yourself either

Thats as may be.. but when you work hard to build something from the ground up, you get very annoyed at pathetic governance that only tries to milk you dry of every pound you make, and put regular obstacles in the way of your progress, the same progress by taxation, that puts pound notes in the salary packets of the muppets that run this country.

There is a distinct malaise about taxation in this country at the moment, VAT and TAX investigations are rampant as GB tries to claw all he can from every source available.. and the honest tax payer is guilty until he can prove himself innocent meanwhile the black economy rolls on unabated.. and thats from the mouth of a VAT inspector, whilst I made him a cup of tea, as he rifled through my files looking for faults...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Thats as may be.. but when you work hard to build something from the ground up, you get very annoyed at pathetic governance that only tries to milk you dry of every pound you make, and put regular obstacles in the way of your progress, the same progress by taxation, that puts pound notes in the salary packets of the muppets that run this country.

I completely agree - but I just find it slightly ironic when people claim to have "come from nothing" and "work every hour god sends" etc but are making plenty of money out of it (even if a good proportion of that is creamed off by GB).

[Spike]

Originally Posted by Polwart

You don't do any work for government departments/agencies/buildings do you? Would seem like a good opportunity for "cost recovery".

Yes we do as it happens, but we have to do it on a 'book of rates' & the clerk of works checks it off, so they still win...

yeah - but with a tax bill of £58k p.a., a rib and cayenne your obviously not doing too badly for yourself either

When I left school the only thing i past was religious education (c+) i failed at everything else (nothing to be proud of i know), i did my apprenticeship & left as the yard closed, then went from job to job (not doing to well so far am i?) i moved to carlisle to work on a hotel refurb the forman told me i was a usless tw#t & go & work in Macdonalds (still not doing too well!!)....this really p###ed me off so i moved back to dorset & applyed myself, met a bird (now wife) within 2 years i was a manager of a large national HVAC company, the guy that owned it (a great man, taught me loads about life & how it only gives to those who work hard for it) he had a hart attack & wanted to give it all up & retire, so i started up on my own (with about £1800.00 all i could muster up at the time) that was fourteen years ago, now the company is doing very well yes but it dident happen over night it is down to the amount of time i have put into it over the years, my wife & kids live in dorset i work away 6 days a week in london & 1 from home with a very supportive wife, it is only now that i can sit back a little & enjoy family life a little more. So i dont claim to have come from nothing.....I DID, & am now very proud of my achivements in life through hard work & no i dont like the tax man taking money from me but who does & i dont like being a gloryfied vat collector ether for that matter. I am not claiming to be unusual, I expect this story is same for countless self employed people around the uk that worked bloody hard & got it right in the end just to have people say 'he's making plenty of money, he's got nothing to moan about'.......'money' is the only reason i do it mate, do you think i like getting cold & wet mending leaks/covered in other peoples sh#t clearing there drains/mending boilers for people at 2am!!!! no its so i can give my kids a better start to life than i had & to maybe retire a little before 50 so i can enjoy what i have built up & maybe buy a bigger RIB . Anyway im fed up with all this now so lets talk about something else like....AVOIDING CAR TAX has anyone ever fitted a 1965 landy chassie & engine to a new VW transporter?

[Biggles]

Spike,

Took a look at the Transits at work today. They are all taxed the same. Whether they are empty backs for load carrying only, partially seated with just one row of seats in the back and a space for carrying stuff or fully seated with loads of seats.

[Spike]

Hi Biggles,
I knew i was being shafted! Bast##ds!
Mike.