Discovery 3, X5 or Touareg..

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I would put one of them up against a Disco any day of the week!

Only on tarmac. Then an X5 4.8i M Sport would be a fairer match.

A Toerag against a Disco in a muddy field would be a non-contest.

[Nick Hearne]

Had my D3 for 5 years now & love it just a great all-round car, not had any problems with mine! Reckon it will do me for anther 5 years at this rate.
I did have mine chipped to get a extra 50hp out of it which I say is well worth it & puts it up with the new D4!
7 adult size seats are excellent if needed & if not the boot is huge!
Very good friend of mine had a X5 which in the end he got BMW to take back as it was the most unreliable car, he had loads of problems with it!
Not saying you wont find similar stories about the Disco but for me it has been an excellent car & still is!

[Brambles]

I have an X5 which is coming up for four years old now. First of all, lets forget the off road debate. It's a posh estate car with a high driving position & great towing capability.

Good points:

Great multi-adjustable driving position & comfy leather sports seats.
Good performance from the 3 litre diesel - remapped to 280 bhp when six months old. Probably now as fast as the petrol V8.
Fantastic tow vehicle - mostly used for small racing cars on a trailer but you literally don't know they are there.
Reliable - the only problem has been a faulty alternator which was fixed under warranty.
Good ride quality despite the sports pack suspension.

Bad points:
Struggling to think really. My last service was a big one requiring new discs & pads & that hurt! But it's a fast, heavy, beast so you have to pay for your pleasure.
Tyres (315-35 20s on the back) are f***ing expensive. But see above.
Oh, & it smokes like an old Volvo boat engine following the re map.


It is now coming to the end of the contract hire & I shall be sad to see it go. Would I have another? Actually no, if I were to get another of this type it would be the new Discovery. Last weekend I went to the coast in one & thought the engine was much smoother than the BM straight six. Also a lot of thought has clearly gone into the suspension on the Disco & I thought it held the road as well as my X5 but without the garden roller sized tyres. There is also the added advantage that it could actually go off road

[tinker]

Originally Posted by Brambles

Bad points:
Oh, & it smokes like an old Volvo boat engine following the re map.

Strange, you may need the remap looking at, this is usually down to a fault on the car or a poor re map.

On the subject of Land Rover's, I have just seen the new all alloy Disco, very nice and very light. Shares the same underbody as the new Range Rover and Range Rover Sport.

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by Cookee

My trip computer says I'm getting 24 /25 mpg on a long run, it's getting a service next week so I'll let you know how much it turns out to be.

Thanks John, much appreciated.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by tinker

Strange, you may need the remap looking at, this is usually down to a fault on the car or a poor re map.

Definately a bad map if it was fine before.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by Brambles

Oh, & it smokes like an old Volvo boat engine following the re map.

Most re-maps are simply a mechanism - mechanical or electronic - for stuffing more fuel into the engine and then wrapped up in a black box and absurd marketing hype and false promises to justify massive over-pricing. Some of them merely contain a resistor to fool the engine management into thinking the air is colder than what it is so that it fuels more.

The reality is you don't get anything for nothing...automotive engineers spend years calibrating the OEM ECU to provide good driveability, legal or legal + emissions, best fuel consumption, best performance, best refinement and engine/drivetrain robustness. If you want more performance, one or all of the rest have to be compromised. It's usually the tailpipe emissions. The guys that produce most of these kits are not rocket scientists. Hence the clouds of black shit.

You pays your money...

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by chewy

The one that towed a Jumbo had about 7 tonnes of ballast added to it so it could get traction.

Yes but we're talking about torque here not grip ...........

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Mollers

Only on tarmac. Then an X5 4.8i M Sport would be a fairer match.

A Toerag against a Disco in a muddy field would be a non-contest.

OK guys - I never said the Touareg was better than a Landy or anything else off road, and I admit the Jumbo thing was a stunt, but at the end of the day I think it's a great car, and for towing stuff on tarmac they are fantastic, and this isn't an argument over which is the best car, it's about what would be best for Jizm's Mrs - now she may be an off-road nutter, but I'm not getting that impression!

[tinker]

Originally Posted by Leapy

Most re-maps are simply a mechanism - mechanical or electronic - for stuffing more fuel into the engine and then wrapped up in a black box and absurd marketing hype and false promises to justify massive over-pricing. Some of them merely contain a resistor to fool the engine management into thinking the air is colder than what it is so that it fuels more.

The reality is you don't get anything for nothing...automotive engineers spend years calibrating the OEM ECU to provide good driveability, legal or legal + emissions, best fuel consumption, best performance, best refinement and engine/drivetrain robustness. If you want more performance, one or all of the rest have to be compromised. It's usually the tailpipe emissions. The guys that produce most of these kits are not rocket scientists. Hence the clouds of black shit.

You pays your money...

I agree, one point. Most standard maps are made for the car to be taken to every corner of the world, all using the same engine map. What this means is that the standard map has to work with lower grade fuels, especially in 4x4.

As you say, 'you pays your money...' However a bit of research on the net should show you who the best are. (some of the best are subcontractors for major manufacturers ) . The last one I dealt with was making around £50 for every diesel car sold by a certain manufacturer, at the same time he had about 4 cars for the Cannonball Run in his garage waiting for modifications to their software.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Leapy

Most re-maps are simply a mechanism - mechanical or electronic - for stuffing more fuel into the engine and then wrapped up in a black box and absurd marketing hype and false promises to justify massive over-pricing. Some of them merely contain a resistor to fool the engine management into thinking the air is colder than what it is so that it fuels more.

The reality is you don't get anything for nothing...automotive engineers spend years calibrating the OEM ECU to provide good driveability, legal or legal + emissions, best fuel consumption, best performance, best refinement and engine/drivetrain robustness. If you want more performance, one or all of the rest have to be compromised. It's usually the tailpipe emissions. The guys that produce most of these kits are not rocket scientists. Hence the clouds of black shit.

You pays your money...

Thats not a remap though, thats a plug in unit.
A remap simply reflashes the ECU.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Yes but we're talking about torque here not grip ...........

My old Disco would probably pull that jumbo if I stuck it in low box.
No good having a load of torque if you have no grip.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by chewy

My old Disco would probably pull that jumbo if I stuck it in low box.
No good having a load of torque if you have no grip.

It'd probably do it at tickover with no throttle on too...

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It'd probably do it at tickover with no throttle on too...

Yep!

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by Cookee

OK guys - I never said the Touareg was better than a Landy or anything else off road, and I admit the Jumbo thing was a stunt, but at the end of the day I think it's a great car, and for towing stuff on tarmac they are fantastic, and this isn't an argument over which is the best car, it's about what would be best for Jizm's Mrs - now she may be an off-road nutter, but I'm not getting that impression!

No she isn't, unless you mean the bit of grass outside our house that we sometimes park on! Yes, she will have the final say because if she won't drive it then it's no good to man or beast. 99% of our towing is done on tarmac or at worst, a green slipway.

Just after the best all round package that we are both (she) is happy with.
This must be bearing in mind everything that may be thrown at it, not to mention, living with it day day, running costs etc and all the info that we are getting from here is very valuable because you chaps actually own / drive / pay for your discos, toerags, X5s etc.

Not trying to cause a free for all, just after some experienced, constructive opinions which you are all kindly offering and are greatly appreciated.

Keep 'em coming, biased or not

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Jizm

Just after the best all round package that we are both (she) is happy with.
This must be bearing in mind everything that may be thrown at it,
Keep 'em coming, biased or not

but i dont think it comes with parking sensors

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by Andy B

but i dont think it comes with parking sensors

not sure it's gonna need them but does it have a dvd player in the headrest?

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by chewy

Thats not a remap though, thats a plug in unit.
A remap simply reflashes the ECU.

My point remains...whether it's a resistor that fools the engine management, or a re-map that dumps more fuel in or increases boost or whatever, the end result, inevitably, is black shit out the exhaust.

You don't buy a 'fully' calibrated optimised engine management re-map for £50 or even £200.

[tinker]

Originally Posted by Leapy

My point remains...whether it's a resistor that fools the engine management, or a re-map that dumps more fuel in or increases boost or whatever, the end result, inevitably, is black shit out the exhaust.

You don't buy a 'fully' calibrated optimised engine management re-map for £50 or even £200.

No, its £250 at the moment, special offer though usually £300-550. The company that I have been involved with, takes the original map off, modify it to suit the drivers style (uses data provided from the original map) and then place it back on. Most reputable company's save the original map, in case the customer requires it back on (usually when selling the car).

If there is

black shit out the exhaust.

then thats unburnt fuel and the remap is no good or the car has developed a fault since the remap has been put on.

I have seen plenty of cars running fine, they get stuck on the rolling road with the remap software running and a fault which has been present is highlighted, (usually the maf sensor) when its replaced the car runs fine, no black shit.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by tinker

I have seen plenty of cars running fine

Fair enough...