Driving skills (was Driving in fog)

[Poly]

no motorway driving is NOT part of the test. It could come up in the Theory part but its not the same as actually doing it. Learners not allowed on m-ways.

The examiner can chose to take you on a route with dual carraigeways with sliproads - if they are in the right area; which is fundamentally the same manouvre - but at best that will be one chance in the test.

[Gray]

I much prefer to do long distance motorway travel in the dead of night, simply because there are usually less vehicles on them and therefore less jams. Saying that over the last 3 days i have driven nearly 600 miles in daylight hours, most of it on the motorway and it made a nice change for the cars to be able to use all three lanes rather than the inside lane being full of lorries. It seems to let the motorways run quicker.

I can see Nos's argument for closing the gap but i still think its highly dangerous for everyone. However, I carry his argument forward for not letting the idiot squeeze in simply because the idiot then doesn't want to be sitting at 56mph with a 6 inch gap infront and behind and moves straight out into the middle lane if they see a gap, no matter how big it is or giving it enough time to judge the speed of the car overtaking the lorry.

Heading up the M6 christmas eve, somewhere around junction 17 / 18 i think it is, are chevrons on the road which your meant to keep 2 apart from the vehicle in front...I had to chuckle when i saw a car tailgating another in the middle lane! Maybe he was too close to see the chevrons!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Any car joining a Motorway should be able to adjust its speed to join a Motorway without inconveniencing anyone. Whether its Nos in his truck or me towing my boat. Trouble is you only notice it when your stuck on the inside lane. Some people are really bad drivers and shouldn't be on todays busy roads.
Why do people do it ? Its bad driving and its dangerous. Is Motorway driving taught on the test ? I don't know. Long time since I did mine.
Lets face it some people you wouldn't trust with a shopping trolley are driving on our busy roads. Some people seem as though they need a rocket up there jacksy when it comes to Motorway driving other people think they are the best driver in the world (There the ones that fill the gap, often said that they've never been in an accident, but they caused loads !!!)
Unfortunatley because the road is the only reasonable way to get around in this country they are pretty busy. Shame they haven't been upgraded for 20 years. If they had maybe there wouldn't be so much bad feeling on the roads.

Like it or not everybody. The Genie has been let out of the bottle with regards motor vehicles and it ain't going back.

The chancellor knows this and takes great delight in making us feel bad about it and making us pay through the nose in the process.

Agree 100%.

To illustrate how crap most people are at joining motorways there is a classic near me - J45 of the M4 Westbound. You come up a very steep hill which has a crawler lane - it also doubles up as the on slip. It always amazes me that 99%(yes that many) people who join the motorway here want to pull out into the normal lane as soon as they can - despite the fact there is still 1/2 a mile of crawler lane left. Never mind how much traffic there is and they are only doing 50mph cos the hill is so steep they still MUST pull onto the motorway because they are too stupid to see the lane carries on.

I deliberately refuse to let them out if it's safe to do so. Maybe one day they will grasp the point - doubt it but it's worth a go!!!

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Biggles

Any car joining a Motorway should be able to adjust its speed to join a Motorway without inconveniencing anyone....

I'm not sure about this... in fact I'll state a fact that there are some terrible slip roads where this will require a 6-cylinder engine or about 200hp to achieve an easy arrival at 70mph on the motorway... try junction 15A on the M1 southbound (the one by Rothersthorpe Services wher you can join from the A43) - it's a git. The approach road has a small roudabout, then a sharp bend, then a very short accelerating lane. I have the misfortune to use it regularly.

[codprawn]

Many people seem to treat the end of a slip road as having a solid wall - it's only a white line for God's sake!!! In an emergency drive through it!!!

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Richard B

I'm not sure about this... in fact I'll state a fact that there are some terrible slip roads where this will require a 6-cylinder engine or about 200hp to achieve an easy arrival at 70mph on the motorway... try junction 15A on the M1 southbound (the one by Rothersthorpe Services wher you can join from the A43) - it's a git. The approach road has a small roudabout, then a sharp bend, then a very short accelerating lane. I have the misfortune to use it regularly.

I know it too-it's not great but I manage ok in a wagon.

You don't need to get to 70mph to join though. 50-60 is fine and gives you more time for planning.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

You don't need to get to 70mph to join though-60 is fine and gives you more time for planning.

Sure... but it depends on the speed of the traffic in lane1 of course! Trouble with short slip roads is that the time for planning is already negligible even at low speed. And judging the speed of traffic takes at least couple of seconds.

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I manage ok in a wagon.

'course you do. The main hazard - other wagons - let you in whatever speed you're doing. Not cars though.

Codprawn - your rant sounds OK in theory, but unless you've specifically planned to take to the hard shoulder, you may land in trouble if there's something there that you haven't noticed whilst looking at the trafic in lane 1.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Sure... but it depends on the speed of the traffic in lane1 of course! Trouble with short slip roads is that the time for planning is already negligible even at low speed. And judging the speed of traffic takes at least couple of seconds.


'course you do. The main hazard - other wagons - let you in whatever speed you're doing. Not cars though.

Fair comment. It's less stressful if you don't have to factor a sudden braking manoevre in as well though-and gives you one less movement of your right foot between the pedals etc etc. I know it's not much as a time saving exercise but every little helps.

On a slip like that I always assume I'm going to have to use the hard shoulder-even in my car. I never assume that anyone is going to allow me out-and you'd be surprised how often other wagons won't/can't let me out either. I can't afford to be complacent.


BTW, HGV and PSV learners are allowed on motorways-and they can be used as part of the HGV/PSV tests (I did part of my class 1 between J15 and 16 of the M4).

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Many people seem to treat the end of a slip road as having a solid wall - it's only a white line for God's sake!!! In an emergency drive through it!!!

It is in order to stop on the slip lane if it is necessary.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by jwalker

It is in order to stop on the slip lane if it is necessary.

It's common sense not to-and bloody dangerous to join the motorway from stationary.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It's common sense not to-and bloody dangerous to join the motorway from stationary.

So, presumably, if you consider it dangerous to stop on the slip road, then when you "close the gap", potentially forcing a motorist to use the hard shoulder, you check first that the hard shoulder is clear and safe for the motorist to use?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Richard B

So, presumably, if you consider it dangerous to stop on the slip road, then when you "close the gap", potentially forcing a motorist to use the hard shoulder, you check first that the hard shoulder is clear and safe for the motorist to use?

If you can't join the motorway safely then you shouldn't be driving.


I'll already know if there's anything on the hard shoulder.
If the joining driver uses proper observation then they will too.
Why should I be a caretaker for the incompetent?
It's not my problem if the idiot that got his licence in a Tesco Value cracker is such a useless clown that he can't look where he's going,plan forward at all and sits halfway along an artic and dithers while running out of slip road-as long as he's behind me...

BTW I think you missed the point about 'closing the gap'.
I'm not going to close off a gap if it's safe for someone to go into it. All I'm doing is preventing someone who's obviously dithering and not paying attention driving into a gap which is too small for them to use without causing me to brake in an emergency-potentially stopping a world of hurt for me as well as them.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It doesn't make any difference what the variables are.
Banging your head against a brick wall hurts.

I only just noticed that...