Proposed car Tax scheme - Page 3

Searider · 12 February 2007, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorper

The problem is that people are prepared to wait in traffic. When you actually put a financial value on it that can be felt then people actively make change for the better.

What's wrong with that - choices again.

Searider · 12 February 2007, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorper

Not really true - people will have to think about the time and the way you go to work,

Exactly,

GF has just changed jobs to reduce commute from 50 miles each way to 1 mile each way. Slightly less salary but more than outweighed by the reduction in costs.
Two hours per day saved as well.

Bigmuz7 · 12 February 2007, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

We would get around a lot quicker if someone undid the deliberate mess Lanbour have created. There is a deliberate policy of messing up traffic flow to FORCE people to use pubic transport!!!

Our roads are getting busier - what has Labour done? Made roads narrower - closed off many roads - introduced speed humps and extra traffic lights.

You used to be able to turn left at most traffic lights as long as the coast was clear - they have closed off most of these left filters. London alone has introduced an EXTRA 14,000 traffic lights. And what about those "traffic calming measures" the ones where they put islands and other obstructions in the road?

Not to mention all the new bus lanes with no traffic in them and the closed off city centres etc etc.

And most people just sit there in traffic jams and say - "ah it's because of all the extra traffic" - if only they realised!!!

Tell you what Codders, et al....... How many times have you come to a junction, where the regular lights are off, even at peak times you seem to get through it fine, and faster IMHO

John Kennett · 12 February 2007, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

The problem with road taxing is that it can be so unfair. What happens if the only job you can find is 120 miles away?

I'm not suggesting that it would be easy, and under any system there will always be individal examples where people are hard done by.

However, I am convinced that we will only rethink our transport use when there is a direct link between each journey and what it costs us.

John

PS We should all have water meters too!

codprawn · 12 February 2007, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Tell you what Codders, et al....... How many times have you come to a junction, where the regular lights are off, even at peak times you seem to get through it fine, and faster IMHO

Funnily enough I nearly mentioned it earlier.

You are quite right - even big junctions with multiple lights at rush hour. Last week the biggest set of lights was out in Swansea - traffic flow was fine - I even wondered if it was a bank holiday or something. When I came back later it was chaos - there was a copper directing the traffic.

In fact it is one of the things the Tories have said they will look into - some countries are ditching all sorts of traffic control - even white lines!!!

Biggles · 12 February 2007, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

I'm not suggesting that it would be easy, and under any system there will always be individal examples where people are hard done by.

However, I am convinced that we will only rethink our transport use when there is a direct link between each journey and what it costs us.

John

PS We should all have water meters too!

Your a right bundle of fun today.

Isn't there a direct link between transport use and cost in the price of fuel. The more you use it the more you pay.

With regards water meters why not stick the knife in to hard working nuclear families whilst your at it. Mum and Dad both have to work to make ends meet. And they have a couple of kids at home that need showers everyday and lots of clothes to be washed. When the parents can actually afford those things because the kids have flown the nest they don't need to pay the bills. Lifes always a struggle with kids. Its just made a bit easier when you can use modern gadgets (Cars, washing machines, dishwashers) to get everything done.

Funny how Global warming has fallen off the agenda at the moment.

Bigmuz7 · 12 February 2007, 23:01

Thats a good point.. we dont have water meters in Scotland.... yet, I suppose because we get pissed upon so often .... ooo and not just from the heavens... oooh I feel another debate opening

Biggles · 12 February 2007, 23:07

Another pet hate of mine.

When I lived in scotland and Paid Poll tax in the early 90's I was paying £20, yes £20 a year for water.

Then I moved to England and found I had to pay one company to supply water and one to remove it. How bizarre. Thats got to be two lots of admin wages at least. And it was then costing me £250 per year. Its a lot more now and I haven't been able to use a hosepipe since last April ! I thought our ban had been lifted last month but turns out not. How much water do these companies need.

Biggles · 12 February 2007, 23:09

Hands up those who have been abroad and been in European cities where the traffic moves much more freely than out own. Think its got something to do with synchronised traffic lights. Also the europeans aren't terribly keen on roundabouts. Wonder why.

Our lights are set to slow you down and inconvenience you and as a by product they cause congestion. And to get us out of our own mess we have to pay for it. Wonderful.

codprawn · 12 February 2007, 23:46

Also has anyone noticed the reduction in cats eyes on the roads these days? Often when they resurface a road they don't bother putting them back and when they do they are the useless reflective studs that soon get dirty and stop working - the original design actually cleaned itself every time a car drove over it.

It was actually mentioned in a coroner's report not long agao that it was partly a lack of cats eyes that were to blame for a car with 4 teenagers going off one of our mountain roads.

One of the best safety ideas ever invented and they are getting rid of them in favour of speed humps!!!

John Kennett · 13 February 2007, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles

Isn't there a direct link between transport use and cost in the price of fuel. The more you use it the more you pay.

What I said was a "direct link between each journey and what it costs". The problem with fuel taxation is that people just tend to wince when they pay for their petrol, then carry on driving regardless. I know I do, and I'm sure I'd drive less if there was per mile charging.

Quote:

With regards water meters why not stick the knife in to hard working nuclear families whilst your at it.

OK, and lets have flat rate pricing for electricity and gas too. And at the supermarket -- one price for however much you put into your shopping trolley. Let's just pay a monthly fee for all the petrol that we want too.

I disagree with most of the non-boating issues that you post about, so I don't expect us to have the same views on this either!

John

Biggles · 13 February 2007, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

OK, and lets have flat rate pricing for electricity and gas too. And at the supermarket -- one price for however much you put into your shopping trolley. Let's just pay a monthly fee for all the petrol that we want too.

John

Besides being a rather ridiculous answer. I think most families pay a sort of flat rate with regards the utilities. The Utlility company looks at what you should be using and sets a monthly fee, if your on a monthly package. In my case it seems to bear no resemblance to my usage as it seems like a savings scheme without any interest for me, only for the company that can be bothered to check my meter once per year.
The supermarket shopping trolley is rather Dale Winton. Wish I could do that.

With regards disagreeing with each other. Isn't that what a democracy is about

Biggles · 13 February 2007, 01:29

Looks like its a dead duck anyway.

Plans to introduce road charging to cut congestion will be scrapped by Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander unless the country backs the scheme, it has been reported.

Mr Alexander told the Daily Mirror: "Unless motorists and families can see the benefits of bringing in a national road pricing system then it simply won't happen."

Trouble is we can't see the benefits. It might be the right answer but Labour have ridden the Tax horse to the limit and we're fed up of it.

My answer is to make sure that all the money we give to private coach and train companies provides a 21st century Britain with the transport it needs and pays for.

Wait for the Olympics. I have a feeling that come 2012 and the summer of the Olympics private transport will be banned from London. Just so everything runs smoothly. Unless your an MP that is. John Prescott starring in the Red corner.

jwalker · 13 February 2007, 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

..The problem with fuel taxation is that people just tend to wince when they pay for their petrol, then carry on driving regardless. I know I do, and I'm sure I'd drive less if there was per mile charging.

Does that mean per mile charging would limit your life and you wouldn't travel or do you mean you'd find a cheaper way to travel?

The grump I have with charging is that it is uncreative. If the aim, as I understand it, is to limit future road congestion there are all sorts of initiatives which could be employed. Taxation is essentially revenue raising and seen to be just that no matter how it is disguised.

As an illustration, similarly and slightly related, a few days ago it was reported that tolls on the Forth and Tay bridges were to stay. The peak time congestion at these bridges is largely, but I would agree not entirely, caused by stopping every vehicle at a barrier to pay. But I saw and heard a minister claiming, as justification for keeping the tolls, that if the barrier wasn't there, the congestion would increase. This, despite there being a change a good while back to only charging in one direction to alleviate congestion on that side of the carriageway, we're supposed to believe. Who can he think he is kidding?
At £1 per crossing, there would have been a big loss in annual revenue, end of story.

John Kennett · 13 February 2007, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Does that mean per mile charging would limit your life and you wouldn't travel or do you mean you'd find a cheaper way to travel?

I don't think it need limit anyone's life any more than punitive fuel tax does, but it would certainly focus the mind!

John

BogMonster · 13 February 2007, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Let's just pay a monthly fee for all the petrol that we want too.

Vote JK for PM!

Biggles · 13 February 2007, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Let's just pay a monthly fee for all the petrol that we want too.

John

I'll vote for that.

codprawn · 13 February 2007, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Vote JK for PM!

In fact he reminds me of a typical politician - if he disagrees with what people say he just changes the subject...........

AndyB007 · 13 February 2007, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

I had a squint to see if someones posted this elsewhere but didn't see anything

Not sure you looked very hard!!!

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17574

Since 10th Jan its gone from 216,000 to 1,321,082 !!!

Andy

John Kennett · 13 February 2007, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

In fact he reminds me of a typical politician - if he disagrees with what people say he just changes the subject...........

So, erm, how is the weather in Swansea this week?

Can anyone give me any tips on drilling a hole?

Tell me again what's the best knife to have on a RIB?

Why are speedboats so rubbish?

John