Towing a car behind a motorhome

Jono · 07 August 2007, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

guys

many thanks for your replys, much appreciated

i have purchase a car a tow towframe for towing a car behind the motorhome

http://www.protowframes.co.uk/

however on my tow frame i have a very strong cable together with the brake cable, i beleive if it comes unhitched then the brake cable would apply the brakes but the strong cable would keep it attached to the motorhome,

we do not use this type of setup over here or with chains and i was interested in your general views on it as to if i should use it or not.

i think that if it was set up correctly so the tow arm did not drop onto the ground it woudl be fine, but if the tow arm can drop on the floor then it would not be safe or wise to use it, especially on a car that could swing around and flip over

cheers guys

How have you got round the issue of auto-reversing brakes required?

Hugh Jardon · 07 August 2007, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

How have you got round the issue of auto-reversing brakes required?

can you explain more?

Jono · 07 August 2007, 17:21

Yeah... as far as I know, A frames, braked or otherwise are not legal for towing cars of more than 750 KG...other than for recovery... because car brakes are not auto-reversing ..as required by a trailer manufactured after (insert date in here..'cause I can't remember

)...and therefore not legal.. if the car is less than 750 Kg.. there is another issue... but I can't remember what at the moment..

... something to do with construction and use regs??...check it out... I have been known to be wrong...not often, I'll grant you... but on occasion...

John Kennett · 07 August 2007, 17:54

From the National Trailer & Towing Association FAQ.

An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. Transporting a car is, therefore, illegal. A-frames may be offered with a braking system that applies the car's brakes. These do not conform to the law as the car then becomes a "braked trailer" and has to conform to European Directives contained within the Construction and Use Regulations. It does not conform to the European Directive 71/320/EEC and amendments regarding braking requirements in any way. The use of this A-frame for transportation is illegal. It is still OK for use to recover a vehicle to a place of safety.

John

Hugh Jardon · 07 August 2007, 19:35

the use of a frames in the uk is fine (enforcement does not seem to be made), however there are some countries in continental europe where the use is illegal and others where they turn a blind eye as well.

i belong to a forum where a lot of folks tow cars behind motorhomes and it is perfectly fine to do so from a safety point of view as long as the car is correctly set up

as with many of the uk laws they are ambigious at the best of times which leads to uncertainty around can you/cant do. there has been much debate over this subject and the general concensus is it is ok in the uk. the car i am getting is specially adapted to allow towing with an aframe with modifications to the brakes, electrics and brake servo etc

i will however pass on the information JK provided to get feedback as i am sure there is some other information to counter some of the points made

cheers for bringing it to my attention anyway

cheers

John Kennett · 07 August 2007, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

the use of a frames in the uk is fine (enforcement does not seem to be made)

What does your insurer have to say about it? Will they cover you?

John

Jono · 07 August 2007, 20:32

From the DOT.. or whatever they are nowadays.... If you've got a system whereby the brakes on the towed vehicle are operated directly by the tow vehicle brakes... a-la drag 'n draw (air brakes) you're OK... if it's an inertia system like most trailers.. you're not.

In addition, C&U Regulation 18 requires the braking system to be maintained in good and efficient working order. If the brakes of the towing vehicle do not directly operate the trailer brakes the use of an inertia (overrun) system is acceptable. If the trailer braking system has power assistance (i.e. servo or full power) it is likely that this assistance will be required while in motion to meet the required braking efficiencies. This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency. To prevent the trailer being used illegally a remote vacuum pump, powered from the tow vehicle, could be installed to recharge the reservoir, alternatively a source could be made available from the tow vehicle. From 1 October 1988 the inertia braking system was required to allow the trailer to be reversed by the towing vehicle without imposing a sustained drag and such devices used for this purpose must engage and disengage automatically. This will be very difficult to achieve on an "A" frame using an inertia (overrun) device.

Hugh Jardon · 07 August 2007, 21:17

i have a separate servo air pump powered by the motorhome that ensures the braking efficiency on the towed car

Jono · 07 August 2007, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

i have a separate servo air pump powered by the motorhome that ensures the braking efficiency on the towed car

..but that doesn't cover the "reversing the trailer without sustained or substantial resistance" clause, does it?

Hugh Jardon · 07 August 2007, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

..but that doesn't cover the "reversing the trailer without sustained or substantial resistance" clause, does it?

not sure, but there are motorhome owners with the aframed car on their policy as well, all declared, which makes it even more interesting

Jono · 07 August 2007, 23:02

A frames can be made legal...if you use direct coupled brakes.. effectively making them a draw-bar trailer.. perhaps the insurance companies assume they're legal in the same way as they assume your boat trailer is legal...(MAM/Overhang Etc)...if it falls within the law... onus is on you to ensure that. Don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying they're not safe.. I looked at towing one behind my Yank Motorhome.. but I'm sure those available are not legal for transportation..only recovery.. so I opted for a trailer...by the way? You ever tried reversing an A-frame when you've fecked up yer navigation? You'll be wishing you'd gone for a trailer then..

jwalker · 08 August 2007, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

..... This is because once the vacuum reservoir is depleted it is possible that the brakes will not meet the braking efficiency.

This is not going to be strictly true is it? The braking will be equally efficient it just requires adequate line pressure or really big feet on the pedal.

Does this 'accessory' braking system attach to the brake pedal of the towed car?

Quote:

An A-frame or dolly can only be used to recover a broken down vehicle to a place of safety.

Oops, so I shouldn't have towed that Transit 300 miles. Honest officer, I am towing it to a place of safety...it's just a little bit further up the road....

Jono · 08 August 2007, 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

This is not going to be strictly true is it? The braking will be equally efficient it just requires adequate line pressure or really big feet on the pedal.

Does this 'accessory' braking system attach to the brake pedal of the towed car?

Oops, so I shouldn't have towed that Transit 300 miles. Honest officer, I am towing it to a place of safety...it's just a little bit further up the road....

JW... the quote in italics was from the DOT.. not me, but yes, some A-frames cable operate the brake pedal..and no... ya shouldn't