Am i legal?? - Page 5

Nos4r2 · 23 November 2013, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramas

Am I right tho that it's not its actual weight but plated weight or if stopped by vosa etc they would weigh me n if over 3500kg I'd be fined

It is, but if it has no plate, I suspect all they can go on is the actual weight.

Gramas · 23 November 2013, 22:21

So if it was 750kg but u had it overloaded and they weighed you can they do anything

Nos4r2 · 23 November 2013, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramas

So if it was 750kg but u had it overloaded and they weighed you can they do anything

Yep, prosecute you for having an overweight trailer.

bartiny · 23 November 2013, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramas

So if it was 750kg but u had it overloaded and they weighed you can they do anything

Yes, at the very least they would not let you proceed any further until you had reduced the weight within the limit (been there done that) even if it means leaving your stuff at the side of the road, then you would be looking at a fairly large fine.

Gramas · 23 November 2013, 22:33

Well will defo be going for test after crimbo

ShinyShoe · 23 November 2013, 22:34

And to be clear if the courts thought you'd downplated to make it look legal and then overloaded they would throw the book at you. I'd expect more so than if you were towing 1200kg on a trailer plated at 1200kg.

If you weren't over the 750kg but had a plate for 1200kg and they prosecuted you for it, at least you stand a hope that the magistrate will be lenient on you because they will agree that the rules are too complex for a mere mortal to understand and you didn't actually pose a risk to road users because you didn't exceed the limit.

Gramas · 23 November 2013, 22:36

Just not worth the risk even if it is a bloody hassle

Bigmuz7 · 24 November 2013, 16:33

I think more than anything its wise to do the test for the simple fact that, you'll never argue with a cop or a VOSA guy at the side of the road, and some of them wont be fully up to speed on the regs either I wouldnt mind betting.

Mcd22 · 25 November 2013, 15:03

Plated weight and actual weight both matter at a vosa checkpoint. We check the plates are all in order and within each others limits. Then we check the plated weights are within the scope of the driving licence held by the driver and finally you get your axles weighed to ensure you are within the plated weights and also not exceeding your axles weights. If the police stop you they can call us to come and weigh you at the roadside if they think you are overweight. Most traffic officers are getting courses at present to bring them fully up to speed on the law regarding trailers.

Any infringements on these can incur a minimum of a fine and the penalities increase to points and a fine and then to prosecution.

A point to remeber regarding offences involving driving outwith your licence, the offence means you don't have valid insurance and that offence carries 6 points and a large fine.

Bigmuz7 · 25 November 2013, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcd22

If the police stop you they can call us to come and weigh you at the roadside if they think you are overweight. Most traffic officers are getting courses at present to bring them fully up to speed on the law regarding trailers.

So my suspicion is correct

I wonder how many people have had convictions due to incorrect enforcement and an individuals usual aquiecence at the roadside, in the face of the never ending beurocracy and confusion over these relentless changes in road traffic law

Mcd22 · 26 November 2013, 09:25

Rather than convictions through lack of knowledge its been people not getting prosecuted through lack of knowledge thats been the problem.
Most traffic officers get regular refreshers on different subjects. The most recent ones happen to have included trailers and towing. Most offences that the police will enforce at the road side are licence infringements or minor faults like lights etc. They have always done this and know the legislation on it as its what they enforce daily. We teach them about our side of the enforcement and things that they can now enforce by different methods. It just means you have more chance of getting caught.

We have 2 different types of officers, we have ones that look at the mechanical side of the vehicle while the other deals with the paperwork side.

The easy way to not get caught is to not commit an offence.

m chappelow · 26 November 2013, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcd22

The easy way to not get caught is to not commit an offence.

The old system worked fine without making things complex & complicated ,
Most drivers will try keep to the letter of the law but complicating things doesent help especially when the the goal post seems to get moved about .

Mcd22 · 26 November 2013, 10:45

The law itself is pretty simple. The confusion comes from people trying to find a way around it.

Gramas · 26 November 2013, 11:16

Well in my eyes the system is very confusing , post was started due to me being unable to interperate the bollocks they have on the website , too many catorgries that throw confusion into are u legal or not!!!! As a genuine driver wanting to be legal I will sit the test but it's so misleading to the regular joe public

Dry_Doc · 26 November 2013, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcd22

The law itself is pretty simple.

The fact that this thread has run to 10 pages would suggest not!

VOSA could do to produce a flowchart similar to the one earlier in this thread, that would make it more transparant.

Mcd22 · 26 November 2013, 13:07

The question was answered correctly on the first page. The other pages have occured because of the grey area that gets created when people try to read what they want into the wording of the law.

Standing at a roadside the law is black and white. Grey usually quickly falls foul of it.

At the end of the day if your not sure then ask.

Agreed that a flow chart or similar would help. I will pass the suggestion up the line.

The regulations on trailers are there to help cut accidents. The majority of offenders I get with trailers are of the pre 97 group. Overwidth, no prop bags, trailer boards in the wrong place or obstructed, boats not strapped securely, no mudguards, bald tyres. The most common answer from the driver is "I have being towing for years and never had a problem". They are the reason that the law keeps getting tightend up and before anybody moans, yes I am aware that there are offender's in every age group and I would hope that you are all leagal but if your a member on here there is really no excuse for being illegal or badly maintained with the amount of free advice thats available on here. Its not uncommon for me to mention the forum to rib owners that we have stopped.

Gramas · 26 November 2013, 13:18

Clear to you as it's your day job but run a survey and 90% of folk will be in same position sad myself !!!!! Read it through several times and I'm afraid it not clear what so ever , so many unclear areas hence posting in 1st place !!!
Will be sitting test but I object to the government coining yet more £s out us working folk.

paddlers · 26 November 2013, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gramas

Clear to you as it's your day job but run a survey and 90% of folk will be in same position sad myself !!!!! Read it through several times and I'm afraid it not clear what so ever , so many unclear areas hence posting in 1st place !!!
Will be sitting test but I object to the government coining yet more £s out us working folk.

How else will they afford to have their stables heated....

Festinghouse · 26 November 2013, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcd22

The regulations on trailers are there to help cut accidents. The majority of offenders I get with trailers are of the pre 97 group. Overwidth, no prop bags, trailer boards in the wrong place or obstructed, boats not strapped securely, no mudguards, bald tyres. The most common answer from the driver is "I have being towing for years and never had a problem". They are the reason that the law keeps getting tightend up and before anybody moans, yes I am aware that there are offender's in every age group and I would hope that you are all leagal but if your a member on here there is really no excuse for being illegal or badly maintained with the amount of free advice thats available on here. Its not uncommon for me to mention the forum to rib owners that we have stopped.

not sure what you think is different to us who passed our tests after '97? the b+e course does nothing at all to educate people on mudguards, prop bags or maximum widths etc. the b+e course is only to teach you how to pass another driving test. i can honestly say its a farce and would be better run as a compulsory one day course teaching people about trailers, not how to do what weve been doing for years, ie drive. i think i speak for the majority when i say that the confusing rules make it feel like we are constantly trying to be caught out.

Barrowboy · 26 November 2013, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcd22

Most traffic officers are getting courses at present to bring them fully up to speed on the law regarding trailers.

Any infringements on these can incur a minimum of a fine and the penalities increase to points and a fine and then to prosecution.
.

So, to summarise, our tax dollar's being spent on further educating the law-enforcers because they don't understand the law as it applies to trailers and yet joe public is left to trawl one of the worst 'gov.uk' web-sites on tinterweb to find out for ourselves.

Presumably, before sanctioning the time and expense involved in up-skilling plod, someone in plod central did a 'training-needs analysis' and discovered that ordinary traffic rozzers didn't understand the law?

I'd suggest the evidence of this thread (and many others previously) demonstrates that at least 75% of normal law-abiding people on here run a serious risk of inadvertently breaking the law every time they venture forth with their trailer.