Any ideas?

Jonny2488 · 13 March 2012, 22:53

Anyone care to hazard a guess at the manufacturer of these hubs? I'm thinking maybe Alko but could easily be wrong. They're on an R.S.A Satellite 2500kg twin axle roller coaster trailer.

Thoughts appreciated.

Thanks.

Trailer Guy · 13 March 2012, 23:24

Reckon you're right with Alko. The fins on the drums and the dust cap fitting inside the boss make it look like it. IIRC Satellite were/are a French manufacturer - dabbled with selling their car transporters about a decade ago - so that would probably fit with the Alko running gear.

Have a look on the inside rim of the backplate - it should have a four digit number stamped on it, something like '2031' or '2360' plus 'ALKO' if your lucky

Best guess without having a look myself, but I think you're right.

Jonny2488 · 14 March 2012, 22:41

Couldn't find anything on the inside rim of the backplate but here are some more photos of the hub and a collection of numbers and letters I found on the outboard side of the drop arms.

Any clearer now?

Trailer Guy · 14 March 2012, 23:40

Oooh, the plot thickens!

Reckon they're either:

GKN-FAD drums. Probably 200x50 brake shoes. Or...

Alko drums with Alko internals. Probably 2051.

Does the dust cap have anything on it? Looks like it might, but I can't tell from the piccys!

Or are there any plates riveted to the centre of the axle?

Jonny2488 · 15 March 2012, 00:40

Ah that's interesting, the hub caps have what I believe is "GSA" written on them, but will check for sure tomorrow.

The only thing on the axle is this sticker.

Thanks for your ongoing help Trailer Guy, it's much appreciated!

Jonny2488 · 15 March 2012, 11:58

Having done some more research it turns out that R.S.A (manufacturer of the trailer in question) are in partnership with GKN-FAD. There's some info about the partnership on R.S.A's website and some stuff about how GKN provide all the running gear for R.S.A's trailers. So it would make complete sense for the hubs in question to be manufactured by GKN-FAD.

Only problem now is finding some info on GKN, which is easier said than done!

Trailer Guy · 15 March 2012, 18:17

Hi Jonny

Have you got a chassis plate on the front of the trailer? If you've got a trailer type I reckon I'll be able to narrow it down for you.

Reckon if it's GKN they'll be Knott 200x50 brakes. Especially as it's 1500kg.

Jonny2488 · 15 March 2012, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

Have you got a chassis plate on the front of the trailer? If you've got a trailer type I reckon I'll be able to narrow it down for you.

Reckon if it's GKN they'll be Knott 200x50 brakes. Especially as it's 1500kg.

Hi mate,

Have attached a photo of the plate that's on the front of the trailer.

Took a hub apart this evening. These photos were taken of the hub on the axle that performed OK on the drive home last week. The other axle got very warm and I expect is in a worse condition. In essence, I think those brakes look completely shot. There was very little movement when I tried to "wiggle" them and it's almost as if they're rusted to the backplate. But I can see that we're looking at some roller taper bearings. How do you grease these, there are no grease nipples?

I'm confused, GKN make running gear but use Knott equipment?? What does the 200x50 relate to? Hub face measurement?

Thanks a lot for your help mate.
Jonny.

Jonny2488 · 15 March 2012, 22:19

More photos.

Trailer Guy · 15 March 2012, 23:09

Hi Jonny

Welcome to my world! Rusty bits if metal and seized components

Right, going by your pics of the chassis plate and brakes, I reckon you've got a Satellite model 252S. Have a shoofty at this and see if it looks familiar:

RSA Trailers spare parts : Launching types 212 à 342/S

And here's a break-down of the braking components:

RSA Trailers spare parts : SAV moyeux et freins GKN-FAD

Trust this is the sort of info you are after?

Agreed, your brakes are buggered, but the bearings don't look too bad. To clean them and grease them isn't too difficult. Pull them out (to get that back one out you'll need to prise that seal off). Clean the old grease out of the hub, degrease the bearings, then re-pack with grease and re-install.

Have a look at this previous link - scroll down to the 'how to change a set of taper roller bearings' post and that'll have pics on how to pack a set of bearings with grease.

Trailer info

Hope this is the sort of info you're after. All the best.

Trailer Guy · 15 March 2012, 23:22

Oh yeah, sorry - you're pretty much bang on with the dims. 200x50 means a 200mm inside drum diameter and a 50mm width shoe.

TBH a lot of trailer manufacturers are a nightmare for using all sorts of different running gear and braking components (Snipe used to be terrible for it, but I think they're fairly consistent nowadays, even Indespension who've used Knott running gear in their own axles for decades, have now moved over to Alko), but it looks like you've got GKN brakes inside GKN drums - a wonder for small blessings!

Jonny2488 · 16 March 2012, 23:29

Thanks a lot for those links mate, they're exactly what I'm after. Not exactly the most intuitive website is it? Especially when random parts of it are in French!

That trailer looks identical to what I've got and the breakdown of the braking system is definitely what's installed on my trailer.

So maybe a silly question, but if the dimensions were exactly the same (will take precise ones tomorrow), could one use some Knott hubs/drums and shoe kits on this GKN axle or would they not be compatible??

Thanks for the bearing packing link, is there no way of topping up the grease in the bearings after they've been dunked in sea water without taking the whole lot apart?

Thanks.

Jonny2488 · 18 March 2012, 21:03

The drums are exactly 200mm internal diameter and the shoes are 50mm wide.

Would Al-ko or Knott shoes be compatible with these backplates and drums?

Cheers.

jyasaki · 19 March 2012, 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny2488

Thanks for the bearing packing link, is there no way of topping up the grease in the bearings after they've been dunked in sea water without taking the whole lot apart?

You may be able to find (or build) a dust cap with a zerk fitting in it that allows you to get grease in without disassembly. Have to be careful about blowing out the grease seal though.

jky

Jonny2488 · 22 March 2012, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

You may be able to find (or build) a dust cap with a zerk fitting in it that allows you to get grease in without disassembly. Have to be careful about blowing out the grease seal though.

Good idea mate, cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

Oh yeah, sorry - you're pretty much bang on with the dims. 200x50 means a 200mm inside drum diameter and a 50mm width shoe.

TBH a lot of trailer manufacturers are a nightmare for using all sorts of different running gear and braking components (Snipe used to be terrible for it, but I think they're fairly consistent nowadays, even Indespension who've used Knott running gear in their own axles for decades, have now moved over to Alko), but it looks like you've got GKN brakes inside GKN drums - a wonder for small blessings!

Any more thoughts anyone on using brake shoes and drums of a different manufacturer to those that were originally fitted? I'm relatively sure it'll all fit the same, it's just the fittings for the brakes onto the backplate that I'm not sure will be the same. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Trailer Guy · 24 March 2012, 10:29

Hi Jonny

Apologies for the tardiness of my reply, I've been run off my feet. As soon as the weather turns for the better, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be out from sun up to sun down!

There's a possibility the knott brakes may fit, though there are differences. Obviously, the way they're retained to the backplate differs, the expander is similar, but not identical, and I'm unsure about the sizes of the adjusters. Also, the way the shoe is housed in the adjusters is different - a converse end, rather than a convex.

Is there a reason for looking at converting? Is it the availability of parts? If so, before you go to the possible grief of changing, did you manage to contact Dave, on those details I gave you? If he's a dealer for Satellite then there's a good chance he'll be able to suply the braking components.

As an aside, here's a few pics of Knott and GKN brake parts, so you can see what I mean about the differences:

Knott 200x50

GKN 200x50

All the best, Ben

Jonny2488 · 25 March 2012, 21:30

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your reply mate, good that you've been busy and hope that is revenue related

I have tried emailing Dave on a couple of addresses but both times they've been rejected and sent back to me, which I fear is bad news. I'm going to try the phone number he's got down tomorrow and see what result I get.

Yes the reason for potentially changing is the current lack of availability of spare parts. I'm hoping Dave will be a dealer and be able to supply the parts, but if not, will have to come up with a plan b.

Thanks a lot for that explanation and photos of the differences, makes it much easier to understand the possible problems.

Thanks again for your help.
Jonny.

Jonny2488 · 26 March 2012, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

Is there a reason for looking at converting? Is it the availability of parts? If so, before you go to the possible grief of changing, did you manage to contact Dave, on those details I gave you? If he's a dealer for Satellite then there's a good chance he'll be able to suply the braking components.

Good news Ben!!....I managed to get hold of Dave today. He is indeed a Satellite dealer and can get hold of parts for me! Hooray! Step 1 complete.

I'm waiting on accurate prices, but initially he said about £160 for a pair of brake shoes (1 axle's worth), thought that was a bit steep or is that pretty standard??

Also, do you think these bearings (photo attached) will be specific or generic ones? Dave said they're about £40 a pair, but if they're just the generic ones, I've seen them considerably cheaper than that!

Thanks,
Jonny.

Nick Hearne · 27 March 2012, 10:34

I have just paid £260 + vat for a new axle for my trailer as the rebuild was going to cost not far off this & I wanted to change to tapered roller bearing, may be worth costing up just replacing the axles?

Trailer Guy · 27 March 2012, 10:40

Hi jonny

That does sound comparatively expensive (Knott 200x50 are around £50 rrp), however I know Dave of old and he's not one in to ripping people off, so it could be the fact they're a PITA to get hold of, or the fact that he needs to get them in from France - shipping, taxes etc... (EU one big happy economic family my arse...)

Anyway, it'd be worth asking him about it, use the fact that it's a twin axle and say you'd like a deal on two sets and make sure it includes the new springs too - your old ones will be shot.

Bearings will likely be fairly generic. Knock them out and let me know the numbers (both on the cone and cup) and the numbers on the seal. I'll be able to point you in the right direction.

All the best, Ben

(or do as Nick did! - happy to price that up for you too)