B+E Driving Test - your thoughts

[Festinghouse]

Originally Posted by tehguy

I've done the B+E and it is a load of bollocks. Before I did it I could tow better than a lot of people who have been driving for longer than I have been alive. Yet I have to take a stupid test and they don't.

im the same as you, ive been towing ever since i passed my driving test and can say that im well capable of getting a trailer into most places other people would give up on. at one company i used to work at, they had a 7.5ton tipper and a plant trailer (long wagon, short trailer) which nobody there could reverse into either our yard or any of the sites. the result was that i had to go with whoever was driving the wagon just so i could do the reversing at 'the other end'. i couldnt drive it on the road as my licence doesnt cover 7.5ton vehicles!

[Nos4r2]

If anyone really thinks the observation and training you have to do for a B+E test is unnecessary, they need to hang up their car keys.

99% of drivers on the road think would benefit from it.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

If anyone really thinks the observation and training you have to do for a B+E test is unnecessary, they need to hang up their car keys.

99% of drivers on the road think would benefit from it.

Yeah...BUT.. WE'RE ALL!.. the Top 1% on here!

[tehguy]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

If anyone really thinks the observation and training you have to do for a B+E test is unnecessary, they need to hang up their car keys.

99% of drivers on the road think would benefit from it.

Yes and unfortunately the 99% who would benefit from it are the ones who are not required to do it thanks to the ridiculous licensing rules.

The driving test itself has come a long way since then and the standard of driving is much higher. When was the last time you saw a towing accident involving a 20 year old? Probably never, because most of them time it is the middle aged father who is taking his family away on a caravan holiday and has loaded his caravan completely wrong and driving totally wrong because he is not required to have training or pass a test before towing anything.

[Boats&Outboards]

Originally Posted by tehguy

Yes and unfortunately the 99% who would benefit from it are the ones who are not required to do it thanks to the ridiculous licensing rules. The driving test itself has come a long way since then and the standard of driving is much higher. When was the last time you saw a towing accident involving a 20 year old? Probably never, because most of them time it is the middle aged father who is taking his family away on a caravan holiday and has loaded his caravan completely wrong and driving totally wrong because he is not required to have training or pass a test before towing anything.

your missing the point, its not to penalise the young. Its a cut off date to introduce a new standard from there on. It'll be impossible to retro ask everybody to sit the test but from that date on everybody will be up to minimum standard. Just the same as when the original theory test came in etc.

www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk

[tehguy]

I argue that it wouldn't be impossible at all, and it would bring a tremendous amount of money in for the government, as well as improving road safety. Bearing in mind that probably less than 10% of existing pre-97 licence holders, in fact probably only 2% (just a wild guess) actually even need the B+E entitlement, the same way that barely any new licence holders do the test for it. It also wouldn't need to be done by anyone who has passed a test for a higher category vehicle and trailer, for example C+E or D+E as lower categories have +E added automatically on completion of those. So it would only be the ones who have never passed any extra tests that need to do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the driver CPC requirement that just came in, is being retrospectively enforced for drivers back to a certain date isn't it?

[Crusher]

Originally Posted by tehguy

I argue that it wouldn't be impossible at all, and it would bring a tremendous amount of money in for the government, as well as improving road safety. Bearing in mind that probably less than 10% of existing pre-97 licence holders, in fact probably only 2% (just a wild guess) actually even need the B+E entitlement, the same way that barely any new licence holders do the test for it. It also wouldn't need to be done by anyone who has passed a test for a higher category vehicle and trailer, for example C+E or D+E as lower categories have +E added automatically on completion of those. So it would only be the ones who have never passed any extra tests that need to do it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the driver CPC requirement that just came in, is being retrospectively enforced for drivers back to a certain date isn't it?

It's not going to raise any money, setting it up and enforcing it would take more than any revenue gained. (And why should the government raise funds this way??) It's not going to make any noticeable difference to road safety, as a percentage of road accidents and road users "towers" make up an insignificant number of the total miles covered on our roads There are much simpler and far more reaching ways to raise revenue and improve road safety, IMO :-D

[Dry_Doc]

It would appear that some EU states are retrospectively removing towing entitlements from pre-97 licence holders.
A guy who used to work with me lost his entitlement when he converted his Spanish license to UK. He thought it was just an oversight by DVLA, but it seems that any renewal or amendment to Spanish licences results in towing entitlements being removed unless you've passed the appropriate test. I'm not sure if this is the whole truth, but he still had to take the test before he could tow again.

[Festinghouse]

ive heard of people over 70 losing them when they re-apply for their licence, though my instructor reckons they could have selected on the form to keep them on.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by tehguy

Yes and unfortunately the 99% who would benefit from it are the ones who are not required to do it thanks to the ridiculous licensing rules.

The driving test itself has come a long way since then

You really think so? All that ANY driving instructor will do is teach you how to pass a test. It's always been the same-even down to following test routes so the candidate knows how to tackle certain road layouts. I really wouldn't call the having to parallel park, check the oil,the ridiculous hazard perception test and the even more laughable 'learn by rote' theory test as any form of improvement.I've passed 4 different tests, and done all of the new 'tests' btw. Everythig additional since I started driving is so basic you'd have to be borderline learning difficulties to fail on-so much so you couldn't pass the main practical test.

Originally Posted by tehguy

and the standard of driving is much higher.

You're either joking or only just old enough to drive a car then? I've been driving for 25 years, 15 of them professionally and standards haven't improved at all. If anything, it's more dangerous than it was when I started driving-there's just the same percentage of idiots, but more of them per square mile.

Originally Posted by tehguy

When was the last time you saw a towing accident involving a 20 year old? Probably never, because most of them time it is the middle aged father who is taking his family away on a caravan holiday and has loaded his caravan completely wrong and driving totally wrong because he is not required to have training or pass a test before towing anything.

Last time I saw a 20 year old towing that needed a B+E licence....well, how many 20 yr olds can you think of who could afford something that required them to have a B+E licence to tow it, as well as afford the insurance to drive a car that could tow something that big?
Your comparison is irrelevant.

[tehguy]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

how many 20 yr olds can you think of who could afford something that required them to have a B+E licence to tow it, as well as afford the insurance to drive a car that could tow something that big?

Plenty: farmers.

Arguably it is such people who make up the majority of B+E test candidates, and they probably have the lowest failure rate too since most people that grow up on farms will have been towing with tractors since they were 10 years old.

It would appear that some EU states are retrospectively removing towing entitlements from pre-97 licence holders.

Yes, I believe quite a few EU countries have done. Thankfully Brussels didn't force us to do it too. Could you imagine how many fewer caravans there would be on the road?

[peterwhite]

Personally I have done the test and for me it was utter garbage. A complete an utter waste of time. For me it simply proves why there are so many accidents on the road with people towing as there is nothing to do with the actual driving with a trailer ie loading restraining and anticipating. There are so many people that can't reverse without a trailer let alone with one and what they ask you to do in the test is ridiculous. What idiot attempts to reverse into a tight space without double checking and tries to couple up in a oner. Let's not be silly about it here if you think you're nearly there why is it a fail to get out and check and go back a little more? For me everything I was taught in the test went against safe driving rules ie using gears to keep the load under control. Not now that puts strain on the gearbox that's what brakes are for. Did not help for me at all.

[Festinghouse]

i personally think the best 'all round' thing to do would be something like a compulsory 1 day course covering all aspects of towing, rather than a driving test for people who have already passed their driving test!

[PeterM]

Odd one really. I passed test in 1992? I think and instantly started towing all sorts, box trailers, flat beds, glider trailers etc. However all weighed next to nothing.

I'd towed stuff around the airfield for two years prior to passing test(anyone towed winch cables up a runway)....I've never had instruction, but to be honest I don't enjoy towing, but when I do give everything a healthy respect.

Momentum is the biggest thing for me....keep that down and towing problems go away.

Properly loaded trailers and nose weights help towing characteristics hugely to.

[willfinch36]

Did it when I was 20, once again, just ticking boxes so I could tow the bigger RIB I'd purchased.

Found it harder to reverse the small trailer than a 7M+ RIB!!

[colcreate]

Originally Posted by tehguy

Yes and unfortunately the 99% who would benefit from it are the ones who are not required to do it thanks to the ridiculous licensing rules.

The driving test itself has come a long way since then and the standard of driving is much higher. When was the last time you saw a towing accident involving a 20 year old? Probably never, because most of them time it is the middle aged father who is taking his family away on a caravan holiday and has loaded his caravan completely wrong and driving totally wrong because he is not required to have training or pass a test before towing anything.

That's a question I would ask the 20+year old towing a speedboat without a prop bag in the outside lane of the three lane M6 overtaking me while I was towing my rib? Or even if he was aware of the laws he was breaking?

[tehguy]

Most likely aware and without a care in the world. I've never seen anyone towing in the 3rd lane but I do not doubt it happens. I have however been overtaken by big 4x4's towing caravans at tremendous speed on the A38.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Dry_Doc

It would appear that some EU states are retrospectively removing towing entitlements from pre-97 licence holders.
A guy who used to work with me lost his entitlement when he converted his Spanish license to UK. He thought it was just an oversight by DVLA, but it seems that any renewal or amendment to Spanish licences results in towing entitlements being removed unless you've passed the appropriate test. I'm not sure if this is the whole truth, but he still had to take the test before he could tow again.

Yep, and as a Diabetic I renew every 5 years. I passed able to drive 7.5T & 12 seats. (I even had a job for the Post office that involed most of my day either in a Sherpa manoevering out of some tight spots or a "LWB" 7.5tonner doing the "intercity" moves.

I then went up & down like a yoyo for a few licences, now seems to have settled at 3.5T & 8 seats, but I have grandfather rights on my B+E. How long that will last?

"Sense" in the conventional meaning doesn't apply to licencing!

Originally Posted by peterwhite

For me everything I was taught in the test went against safe driving rules ie using gears to keep the load under control. Not now that puts strain on the gearbox that's what brakes are for. Did not help for me at all.

True, and I guess as well you may have learned on something not too dissimilar to me where when you took your foot off the air intake was totally blocked & nobody gave a monkey's @rse about emmissions. I learned on an Austin A40. I could half the stopping distance by crashing down the gears. All round drums, no vacuum assist on the middle pedal, and ABS was something you went to the gym to improve!

Nowadays the emmissions thing means more often than not there is still fuel being injected to keep the cat happy, so the engine braking is cr@p. Add that to the huge vacuum assist on the disc brakes....etc etc etc... Remember not all of us think like engineers or remember the "good old days". They have to phrase it assuming worst case.

Originally Posted by tehguy

Most likely aware and without a care in the world. I've never seen anyone towing in the 3rd lane but I do not doubt it happens. I have however been overtaken by big 4x4's towing caravans at tremendous speed on the A38.

Never seen anyone tanking up the outside lane of a motorway with a trailer? How long have you been driving??????

[tehguy]

Only 6 years and a month, but I live 50 miles from the nearest motorway so I don't spend much time on them