Bearing/Hub protection.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Mollers

I knew I had something missing in my life. You wont believe it, but i've been using my fingers all these years!

Agreed but those Infrared thermometers are great - got mine from Maplin. So many uses - checking exhaust pipes - engine blocks - the woodburner flue - all sorts of things - the fridge - the cat's arse(definitely not fingers)...........

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by codprawn

the cat's arse(definitely not fingers)...........

You git. You just gave me an image that made me spray coffee at the screen....

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

That works, up until you get a bearing that is failing. Then you can't check again until your fingers heal.

jky

OK, in my experience , the no.1 thing that cooks the hub is the brakes binding. This is an issue with bearing buddies, savers etc, as it boils the grease and causes it to blow out through the pressiure relief holes. If you're in a binding situation you really wont need a gadget to let you know. Practically all of the five senses will be clued in to the fact. If, on the other hand the bearings are so shot that they are getting hot, they'll also be rumbling like billiow.

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by Mollers

on the other hand the bearings are so shot that they are getting hot, they'll also be rumbling like billiow.

Have to agree with Mr mollers on that one.
Last time I had a bearing on the way out (on a non braked trailer) it sounded horrible through the tow bar and wasn't even that bad yet.

I think the shot bearings allow enough movement for the brakes to rub, which makes everything worse.

I have one of the infra red temp guns that I've used for all sorts of things, including balancing multi-cylinder bike engines by equalizing the temperature of the header pipes. And it makes taking the kids temperature a bit of fun when they are feeling ill.

Nasher.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Have to agree with Mr mollers on that one.
Last time I had a bearing on the way out (on a non braked trailer) it sounded horrible through the tow bar and wasn't even that bad yet.

I think the shot bearings allow enough movement for the brakes to rub, which makes everything worse.

I have one of the infra red temp guns that I've used for all sorts of things, including balancing multi-cylinder bike engines by equalizing the temperature of the header pipes. And it makes taking the kids temperature a bit of fun when they are feeling ill.

Nasher.

Have you tried it on a cat - they get pretty hot...........

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Have to agree with Mr mollers on that one.
Last time I had a bearing on the way out (on a non braked trailer) it sounded horrible through the tow bar and wasn't even that bad yet.

I think the shot bearings allow enough movement for the brakes to rub, which makes everything worse.

I have one of the infra red temp guns that I've used for all sorts of things, including balancing multi-cylinder bike engines by equalizing the temperature of the header pipes. And it makes taking the kids temperature a bit of fun when they are feeling ill.

Nasher.

Iam with Mollers too , you can hear and feel bearing going and if the hub is hot it smells if unsure spit on it .jack it up and spin the wheel It will feel rough long before it gets hot or sounds bad on the road .

Nasher
How the hell do you balance carbs with a heat detector ??

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Mollers

OK, in my experience , the no.1 thing that cooks the hub is the brakes binding. This is an issue with bearing buddies, savers etc, as it boils the grease and causes it to blow out through the pressiure relief holes.

Could very well be. But it's not the only cause, and is much more lokely to happen to a disk brake-equipped trailer than a drum equipped one.

If you're in a binding situation you really wont need a gadget to let you know. Practically all of the five senses will be clued in to the fact. If, on the other hand the bearings are so shot that they are getting hot, they'll also be rumbling like billiow.

Not necessarily true. Water in the grease will decrease it's lubricity, and heat will develop. The friction of the rollers grinding will generate heat long before the bearings fail and your wheel goes careening into the weeds. Insufficient grease will also cause a period of overheat before failure. Any warning is better than a sudden failure.

Don't know about your trailer, but I can run over the Bott's Dots (the little raised lane marker thingies) and not feel it in the truck. I suspect I'd never feel a bearing going, either.

jky

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Could very well be. But it's not the only cause, and is much more lokely to happen to a disk brake-equipped trailer than a drum equipped one.




Not necessarily true. Water in the grease will decrease it's lubricity, and heat will develop. The friction of the rollers grinding will generate heat long before the bearings fail and your wheel goes careening into the weeds. Insufficient grease will also cause a period of overheat before failure. Any warning is better than a sudden failure.

Don't know about your trailer, but I can run over the Bott's Dots (the little raised lane marker thingies) and not feel it in the truck. I suspect I'd never feel a bearing going, either.

jky

Disks??!! You're going to tell me that trailer wheels in the US aren't made of wood next!

[Poly]

Jky - are you suggesting that you can get a very early warning of an impending bearing failure by measuring running temp, and watching for a change of a few degrees, rather than waiting for a temperature change that is obvious to the hand (or eye)...

I certainly had a previous (unbraked) trailer where there was a noticeable temperature difference between the two hubs after towing for a while - the off side hub was hot but not unbearable to touch (50-60 C?) - the near side was warm (40-45 C?). IIRC the bearings were repacked/greased after that rather than replaced as there wasn't any movement or significant wear. They then seemed to be equal temps for the rest of the season (and then she was sold). Perhaps I was lucky? Perhaps I spotted it early? Perhaps there wasn't really a problem and it was just facing the sun or something?

Is your point not that if it is too hot to touch or smoking you should have spotted it earlier before it became "critical"?

[ian parkes]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Because when the air/fuel ratio is the same the header pipes run at the same temperature. Quite accurate really

Its obviously easier with Bikes cos they have 4 seperate header pipes rather than a manifild

Nasher

I have this sort of ogri cartoon vision in my head of you wheeling a superbike out of the garage warming it up then pointing your thermometer at the wheels and exhausts etc , not touching a thing and zooming off down the road .

[jyasaki]

Bunch of replies together here , if I can do it.

Originally Posted by Mollers

Disks??!! You're going to tell me that trailer wheels in the US aren't made of wood next!

Mollers, I'm not sure what all your emoticons are about; what are you trying to say?

In the US, we have drum braked trailers:

http://www.championtrailers.com/DRUM%20BRAKE%20KITS.htm

and we have disk braked trailers:

http://www.championtrailers.com/SUB_KODIAK.htm

Drums are much cheaper, less effective, and more prone to corrosion (primarily because inspection is a PITA. Disks are more expensive, more prone to lockup between use, and, due to the drag of the pads on the disks, tend to run much hotter than drums.

There are, as far as I am aware, no trailer wheels made of wood, though I can probably scare up an artisan or two who would be willing to craft you some, if you desire.

That satisfy your snobbiness?



Nasher: When your bearing was going, what was the temp vs the other side?


Polwart: No, I'm saying that you may get warning of an impending failure by shooting the temp. My point is that any rise in temperature is reason for inspection/analysis. And yes, Mollers, that includes brakes as well, wood or metal. The point I was trying to make was that it's better to stop a problem before it happens than to fix it afterwards.

Your choice, though.

jky

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Nasher: When your bearing was going, what was the temp vs the other side?

jky

Unfortunatly I didn't check, it would have been hard anyway with the smaller unbraked hubs.

I had a rumbling coming through the towbar when I moved the boat for the first time that year so I checked the bearings a couple of days later and found one was on the way out. Small ridges of wear/rust where the rollers had sat in the same place all winter. I replaced it and next time I towed the boat again all was quiet.

Perhaps in recent years the towbar has become more insulated from the body of the car its attached to so you don't get so much noise.

Nasher

[jyasaki]

[QUOTE=Nasher;229554] Unfortunatly I didn't check, it would have been hard anyway with the smaller unbraked hubs.[quote]

Why is that? A quick feel of any metal part at the hub will give you a good indication (I use the hub body protruding from the center of the wheel.) The temp probe just makes it so you don't get your fingers dirty.

Perhaps in recent years the towbar has become more insulated from the body of the car its attached to so you don't get so much noise.
Nasher

Don't know. But I certainly don't feel anything but the larger bumps when I'm towing.

jky

[Nos4r2]

Bike related posts are now in the vehicles/other stuff section.

[ian parkes]

I meant to update this when i fitted the bearing savers last week .

I got the indispension ones and the heabvy duty seals total about £55 with postage .

I am very sceptical as to wether they will work , have to take your word for it Mollers .

The reasons i say that are

1 the shoulder at the back of the stub axle that the seal contacts with goes rusty which will quickly spoil the seal , although there is a seal bonded to the back of the rear bearing in my hubs .

2 A normal grease cap has an air / pressure relief hole and if you put grease in the cap , which you are not supposed to , most of it ends up blowing through the back seal into the drum .

3 The bearing savers have a plastic dust cover cap , which is quite a tight fit and that covers the pressure relief hole . I think the idea is that any excess grease is forced intio the cap , but I reckon it will go through the back seal.

However all this doesn't bother me too much as I would rather some grease end up being pushed through the back into the drum than water getting inot the the bearings . It takes a lot of grease to actually get on the brake shoes as it it gets deposited on the backplate which isn't turning so it stops there

Last of all the bearing savers are a real pig to get on , you really have to get them dead square and hit them hard , if they go crooked they wont tap in like the dust caps will . Not easy on yer own holding the block of wood and the bearing saver while swinging a hammer with the other hand .

Just my thoughts Ill know this time next year if they worked , or maybe sooner if they didn't

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by ian parkes

I am very sceptical as to wether they will work ,....The reasons i say that are

1 the shoulder at the back of the stub axle that the seal contacts with goes rusty which will quickly spoil the seal ,

That's a problem area so you need to put plenty of water resistant grease on it. It doesn't spin so the grease doesn't fling.

...although there is a seal bonded to the back of the rear bearing in my hubs .

Ian, I'm not quite sure what you've got because on the bearing which includes the seal, the seal lip bears on the bearing not the stub axle as you suggest above. Have you got two rear seals, one on the bearing and a normal one in the recess? When used on its own, there is a fault with this bearing in that the inner track does not seal to the stub axle because it's just a slide fit, also the rear of the bearing track is exposed to the salt water. I've not found these seals to be effective for long.

Last of all the bearing savers are a real pig to get on ,

You'll have Garfie after you for being piggist...

[Nasher]

Ian

I have to agree that one of the biggest problems is the shoulder that the rear seal rubs against goes rusty and rips the seal lip.

Its been my plan for a while to whip the stub axles out of my hubs, turn the shoulder down a bit in my lathe and sweat a stainless steel collar on for the seals to run on. Haven't got around to it yet, but am lucky that my stub axles are held in with a big nut on the back rather than being welded.


Nasher.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Ian

Its been my plan for a while to whip the stub axles out of my hubs, turn the shoulder down a bit in my lathe and sweat a stainless steel collar on for the seals to run on. Haven't got around to it yet,

Snap. I can't remove my stub axles but there are stainless sleeves available for using to reface a worn sealing surface. They are thin and designed to be push fitted and the seal is able to accomodate the extra thickness. One day...

[Nasher]

Two great minds, and all that

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Small ridges of wear/rust where the rollers had sat in the same place all winter. I replaced it and next time I towed the boat again all was quiet.

No roller / ball bearing likes to sit stationary, especially loaded. Invest in a set of axle stands / large lumps of wood to take the weight off them if you plan to park it up over the winter with the boat on - if not jack it up every so often & give the wheels a 1/4 turn. (Axle stands wil lalso take the strain off the rubber bits in your suspension units)

Originally Posted by Nasher

Perhaps in recent years the towbar has become more insulated from the body of the car its attached to so you don't get so much noise.

Au contraire - the new EEC approved ones essentially need to bolt straight into the chassis rails! I think there were one too many boot floors being ripped out in the dim & distant past..... I found towing the Laser the formula "more grease on the ball = quieter trip" (unbraked hitch) I guess it might be more likely your auto reversing hitch doing the damping?