Biggest rib you can tow behind a hatchback

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by Hightower

My 6.2m boat and trailer weighs in well over 1100kg, just shy of 1700kgs with a full tank.

The truth is finally out.

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

The truth is finally out.

With a 600 L tank Mr H. Tower is able to smuggle cheap fuel across the ditch?

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Hightower

One things for sure though! Using a FWD car will compromise you significantly for easy and reliable retreval. A RWD car would be better,

I'd debate that point - if you are Front Wheel drive, then you have the weight of the engine above the axle = more grip . Most hitches (definetley the Focus) are max 50KG, so traction is better up front. Then there's the small matter that I can reverse my rear wheels onto relatively slippy stuff and as long as the front is still on the clean tarmac, I know I'll get back out.

Dare I ask what model of Focus you have? The max limits (in the back of book) will vary widely from the 1.6 petrol to the 2.0L diesel (and also the old & new bodies). I have one of the heavier Focus variants, and could legally have bought an unbraked trailer for my Humber. I only went braked to "future proof" it against any lighter cars I might buy in the future.



As for the max width, it's something like 2.3M max. That;s why if you see a Pac on the back of a lorry, the toobs are always deflated - the solid hull is not far off 2.3m wide - with the toobs inflated, they'd need a widre load escort to move it.

[slimtim]

It's an original 1.8 petrol but thinking of upgrading to something with a meaty turbo diesel. Thanks for all the replies.

Downhilldai, would be interested to know how the weight of your 5.8 compares to the 6.2...

[Xk59D]

i was in same position as you when i bought my RIB a couple of weeks back. i passed my test in 99 so i also have the same restrictions on towing.

there is a LOT of conflicting info out there and the DVLA website does nothing to help that IMHO so i called the road police for an answer-

unladen is car with no spare wheel/driver and 3 ltrs of fuel

kerb wight is car with spare wheel, 90% full fuel tank and a driver of 75kg

MAM is the car, spare wheel, full tank of fuel and 4 adult passangers.

(all the above details ican be found stamped on your door pillar)

as an example-

my car is a vectra CDTI 150 SRI-

unladen weight 1428
kerb weight 1595
MAM 2005kg

my RIB is an avon 5.6 on a braked trailer with a MAM/GVW of 1100kg (that includes the trailer weight itself remember!)

the max i can tow on my licence is less than 3.5 tons which includes the car MAM and the boat/trailer MAM so my combined is under the legal limit. i'm also under the limit of the MAM of the trailer versus the unladen weight of the car so happy days.

the british caravan club advise not to tow more than 85% of the kerb weight of the towing car. remember though this was made with wind resistance of a huge caravan in mind so you could go a little more if you really had to "comfortably".

little word of warning-i got conflicting info on what the police look for or will charge you against.

i was told the 3.5 ton limit is the PLATED MAM of the car and trailer. i.e the theretical load it will take and not the actual-another police officer said it is the actual weight.......i'm under both so not a concern but worth a watch and clarification.

cheers

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by slimtim

Downhilldai, would be interested to know how the weight of your 5.8 compares to the 6.2...

Around 1450 kg with 100 litres of fuel and a fair bit of kit onboard.
I haven't weighed it totally empty.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Around 1450 kg with 100 litres of fuel and a fair bit of kit onboard.
I haven't weighed it totally empty.

That's the gross weight including the trailer or just the boat?

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by 9D280

I'd debate that point - if you are Front Wheel drive, then you have the weight of the engine above the axle = more grip . Most hitches (definetley the Focus) are max 50KG, so traction is better up front. Then there's the small matter that I can reverse my rear wheels onto relatively slippy stuff and as long as the front is still on the clean tarmac, I know I'll get back out.

Come down to my local slip and we can have a debate after I've recovered you

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Hightower

Come down to my local slip and we can have a debate after I've recovered you

Weight transfer to the downhill wheels when on a slope seems to be significant - try reversing an empty pickup uphill in 2WD...... even with no trailer on the back my Ranger squeals the tyres if you don't take off very gently.

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by Hightower

That's the gross weight including the trailer or just the boat?

The whole lot, on a local weighbridge. Even had air in the toobs.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

The whole lot, on a local weighbridge. Even had air in the toobs.

Yes but was it a warm day?

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Hightower

Come down to my local slip and we can have a debate after I've recovered you

Admittedly my whole rib+trailer only clocks in at around the 750Kg mark full of fuel most of which isn't there when I recover it. The car is about half a ton heavier than it's "piddly petrol sized" cousins, so it may not be as big an issue for me as some!

So how steep is your slip? - I've yet to find one where I couldn't get back up. (Famous last words moment - Cue disaster next outing on flat, clean...... ) Seriously tho' I'd be interested to see the maths for that, considering the percentage of the weight over the front to start with.......

Originally Posted by slimtim

It's an original 1.8 petrol but thinking of upgrading to something with a meaty turbo diesel.

Assuming you want to stick with the blue oval, current Focus (well ,the pre facelift current, assume new new will be similar) 2.0L estate clocks in at 1600- ish Kg. Rated for towing 750Kg unbraked!

[Dry_Doc]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

little word of warning-i got conflicting info on what the police look for or will charge you against.

i was told the 3.5 ton limit is the PLATED MAM of the car and trailer. i.e the theretical load it will take and not the actual-another police officer said it is the actual weight.......i'm under both so not a concern but worth a watch and clarification.

cheers

It's all done on plated weight AFAIK.
i.e. for a cat B licence, the combined plated weights of the combo must be under 3500kg, irrespective of the actual weight.
If you exceed the plated weight limit of either vehicle (or even an individual axle) then they can prosecute you for overloading.

[DGR]

Originally Posted by 9D280

As for the max width, it's something like 2.3M max. That;s why if you see a Pac on the back of a lorry, the toobs are always deflated - the solid hull is not far off 2.3m wide - with the toobs inflated, they'd need a widre load escort to move it.

That can't be right. I checked when I was lugging mine around, and I didn't need to do anything to my tubes, and it's 2.7m wide. Think about how wide some caravans are - and I'd guess that they are up to the max width.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by DGR

That can't be right. I checked when I was lugging mine around, and I didn't need to do anything to my tubes, and it's 2.7m wide. Think about how wide some caravans are - and I'd guess that they are up to the max width.

He's kind of right! http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehi...frequently4577 although apparently the government's website is out of date: http://www.ntta.co.uk/news/news_details.aspx?NewsID=11

So the maximum width of a trailer (behind a car) is 2.55m. However you are allowed to have the load overhang the trailer by (I think 30 cm) on each side - so your boat can be bigger than this.

[BruceB]

I would have to agree that front wheel drive is useless on a slip trying to recover any sort of weight.
The tow hitch weight and weight transfer because of the slope means most of the weight is over the rear wheels.
Even on a flat piece of ground rear wheel drive will put more power onto the tarmac because of weight transfer when accelerating, hence the limits on power on front wheel drive powerful cars.
I have watched, with lots of supressed giggles, the antics of some folk trying to recover any reasonably sized boat on our local steepish slip using front wheel drive cars. There are lots of rubber marks from these attempts.........

[Xk59D]

you should have seen my first attemp at recovering mine last weekend for a laugh!!! inexperience with a rib/roller trailer, rough sea and a FWD car is a recipe for a good laugh.

because i have a FWD car i went with the rope it up/down the slip method and it works fine albeit if it is a busy slip you better turn up before the crowd does or you will get dirty looks due to the time taken.

to try and speed things up and keep me/car safe i bought an electric towbar winch setup to do the job for me-will try it this weekend and report back.

cheers

[9D280]

Originally Posted by BruceB

I would have to agree that front wheel drive is useless on a slip trying to recover any sort of weight.

This may be where I win- the whole lot fuelled only weighs in at about 730KG. (weighbridge weight) after a day's entertainment, there's about 60L of liquid missing......... Also my hitch nose weight is probably nearer 40Kg so all that "extra" weight isn't as bad as some...

Originally Posted by BruceB

The tow hitch weight and weight transfer because of the slope means most of the weight is over the rear wheels.

True, the slope will transfer some weight, but taking the Focus as an example - Mine clocks in at 1600Kg. If I load the boot to max GVW, I can see the wheels dissapear into the arches. That doesn't happen when I hitch up. It also doesn't happen if I park on a slope, so once again, I'd like to see some maths, which I'll try to do if I can get over the weighbridge in the next few days to get the axle weights.

If weight transfer was such a huge problem, how come all front wheel drives don't come to a slipping halt when towing trailers or with a full boot when driving over the Gross Glockner or that nice hill on the York - Scarbrough road?

Originally Posted by BruceB

Even on a flat piece of ground rear wheel drive will put more power onto the tarmac because of weight transfer when accelerating, hence the limits on power on front wheel drive powerful cars.

Agreed, but if the rear wheels are on slippy stuff when the front are on the solid stuff, that extra traction is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. I know which one I'd rather try to get out!

Originally Posted by BruceB

I have watched, with lots of supressed giggles, the antics of some folk trying to recover any reasonably sized boat on our local steepish slip using front wheel drive cars. There are lots of rubber marks from these attempts.........

Yep, and I've also smiled at the smell of many burning clutches...... There are three important words here: "clutch", "throttle" and "control" - With a big turbo diesel, it's possible to get sufficient torque to the wheels without winding the turbo up so the torque really kicks in & the tyres let go. I've successfully recovered on the public slip at Blairvadach (it's a cobbled slip onto this http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/87921) numerous times with a Focus.

Yes, If I was dragging a ton & a half of 7M boat with a huge engine and full fuel tanks to match around then yes, I'd be looking at something bigger & 4WD, but with careful choice of boat & car, use of a saloon or estate should not be an issue.


All I'm saying is that as per usual with ribs, the absolutes of a given item are not as important as the whole set-up!