Car rolls back on a slipway with trailer attached

[ManxJason]

Hey there! I'm about to get a new trailer so I can finally launch my sib directly in the water. I've got a Saab 9-3 with new disks and pads all round, and I've just had the handbrake looked at.

With my box trailer and boat on the quite sloped drive way, I'm finding that the car will roll backwards slowly with the extra load. This is with the handbrake engaged.

If I engage 1st gear along with the handbrake then the car will not roll backwards.

Is this OK knowing that there will be some load on the transmission? Should I put the car back into the garage to be looked at again? Shall I just additionally chock the wheels on the slip?

The trailer is approx 160kg and fully loaded sib around 130-140kg.

Thanks

[Steve509926]

Hi Jason, personally I'd do all 3.
Get your Saab back into the garage and ask them to change the brake cable (not a big job to do yourself) and take a look at the calipers which will probably be ok, but no harm done to take a look. Saab started using GM (Vauxhall) parts early 2000s and the likes of the Vauxhall Omega was notorious for having a sh1t handbrake.
Putting into 1st gear with a light trailer and Sib won't (IMO) do it any harm.
Using a couple of chock's would be a good idea, if only to give you peace of mind.
I use a trailer a lot to transport my sib about, especially when I'm on holiday, but I tend not to launch from the trailer. I find using the transom wheels much easier.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by ManxJason

Hey there! I'm about to get a new trailer so I can finally launch my sib directly in the water. I've got a Saab 9-3 with new disks and pads all round, and I've just had the handbrake looked at.

With my box trailer and boat on the quite sloped drive way, I'm finding that the car will roll backwards slowly with the extra load. This is with the handbrake engaged.

If I engage 1st gear along with the handbrake then the car will not roll backwards.

Is this OK knowing that there will be some load on the transmission? Should I put the car back into the garage to be looked at again? Shall I just additionally chock the wheels on the slip?

The trailer is approx 160kg and fully loaded sib around 130-140kg.

Thanks

Its not unusual for modern handbrakes to be pretty poor to be honest, the braking %age for mot standards is pretty low. As cars age the handbrake performance usually doesnt improve & you could spend good money changing partially worn parts to rectify it. Maybe worth a chat with the garage & see what they think. Parking in gear wont do the vehicle any harm whatsoever, I do it routinely if im driving a manual car just as a secondary measure. If your concerned about the car on a ramp a couple of chocks of wood are a cheap & easy backup if you feel its necessary.

[Peter_C]

I consider leaving a manual transmission in gear with the engine shut off the first way of keeping it in place, with the hand brake being the second. No way would we ever leave the vehicle with just the hand brake on, and in neutral.

[spartacus]

With new pads and discs, we’re they bedded in? New brakes aren’t effective immediately. When I’ve fitted new brake discs and pads, then do a few hard braking stops, but do not come to a complete stop, and do not keep your foot on the brake. The pads and discs should bed for optimum results, normally up to a couple of hundred miles.

If that doesn’t resolve it, then get new cables fitted. Cables do stretch over time, but if handbrake applied then it should hold. Whenever I’m recovering a boat on a slip, I leave the car in gear and handbrake on (electro-mechanical handbrake), engine off.

[User name]

As spartacus mentioned, your brakes won't be at their best just yet and you'll have to go through the scrubbing phase. It takes longer on the rears due to the bias being to the front.

Another option could be a brake pedal depressor. They're commonly used during wheel alignment jobs and you can buy them pretty cheap.

[ollyit]

i run 3 x 2003 to 2006 saab 9-3s, i tow with my 2.0T aero no worries, avon searider 5.4 and phantom 16s on single axle sbs1600r2b trailers, in the centre console arm rest, remove the rubber vent hole, it will reveal a nut, 10-13mm from memory, it will nip the tension kn handbrake cable and reduce pull up height of your handbrake - have a play mate, easy to do

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by ollyit

in the centre console arm rest, remove the rubber vent hole, it will reveal a nut, 10-13mm from memory, it will nip the tension kn handbrake cable and reduce pull up height of your handbrake - have a play mate, easy to do

That reminds me - I used to run a 2010 Skoda Fabia as a daily driver with dreaded drum brakes. Every winter the shoes would seize with the damp. Anyway the adjust 10mm nut works to a point (I think it's called handbrake equaliser yolk), but I was still getting some wheel travel even with new shoes and 2-3 clicks on the handbrake.

Turns out at 100k miles, the shoes weren't the issue but the inner drum face as it had lost material and needed to be replaced. Who would even have thought!

Only word of warning with any brake adjustment, is after it's done, run the car for a few miles and coast to a stop without braking. Your rear discs shouldn't be hot.

[beamishken]

Adjusting the cable length on those type of brakes might give a short term improvement but will probably result in the self adjusting mechanism not working. The usual fault with handbrakes on those cars is the handbrake actuating arm on the caliper starts to stick & wont return fully & unless the arm can return fully the calliper wont ratchet up the self adjust mechanism inside. tightening the cable "false adjusts" the handbrake stopping the ratchet working & as the pads wear the caliper cant adjust & the handbrake becomes none existant. The adjusting nut on the cable is realy only for initial installation & once the cable is set up it shouldnt realy need touched unless the cable stretches slightly. Poor handbrake operation with that type of caliper is usually caused by sticky handbrake levers on the calipers, sticky cables or incorrectly adjusted cables. 9/10times its sticky caliper leavers which can sometimes be freed off but often results in new calipers being required. Fairly easy to check by looking behind the wheel & checking the leavers fully return to their stops when someone releases the handbrake (make sure the car wont roll over you). If they are fully returned you can encourage them to adjust by someone pressing hard on the footbrake & tapping the caliper with a hammer to encourage the ratchet to click up

[Fenlander]

Jason I wonder if your model actually has the dreaded shoes inside drum handbrake setup as below? I say dreaded not because it's a bad system but because garage and DIY folks alike ignore proper maintenance because it's a faff and often lack the skill to set it up properly. And as Ken says above with the caliper handbrake system often tightening the cable is the last thing you need to do.

[Fenlander]

Like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJLKqcfsAYg

[User name]

You don't want to mess with the adjuster on the handbrake lever itself just yet. Essentially it just takes up slack and sets the amount of throw on the lever. It doesn't adjust the pads/shoes themselves (unless it's been overtightened). Doing this bit incorrectly can lead to the brake being slightly engaged and it'll overheat.

If you don't have shoes, leave it a little while and see if it improves. You can help bed in the brake a bit by applying a little handbrake while coasting every now and then (don't go crazy on it).

If you have shoes, there's a method for adjusting them by reaching through one of the lug bolt holes with a flat screwdriver when you have the wheel off. You can set them up by putting the handbrake on click #1 and adjusting the shoes to slightly rub when you spin the wheel. Then test they're free when the handbrake is released. Make sure you have the same amount of resistance on either side and then see if it's performing any better.

[beamishken]

A 93 doesnt have shoes in disks its calipers like these

[User name]

Originally Posted by beamishken

A 93 doesnt have shoes in disks its calipers like these

That depends on generation and spec. Both versions are available. I don't think the OP mentioned which though, right?

[Fenlander]

It just crossed my mind too he might have an older one with the disc/drum arrangement.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by User name

That depends on generation and spec. Both versions are available. I don't think the OP mentioned which though, right?

Could be yeh, I read the first post where he mentions new disks & pads fitted & no mention of shoes so assumed the handbrake in caliper set up.
If they are shoes in disks that might explain the poor handbrake as they were often pretty poor

[ManxJason]

Many apologies everyone, I meant to get back to and respond to this thread - I've had a busy time recently with some work and travel. I actually picked up a new trailer and gave it a go at the slipway.

- Handbrake on
- First gear
- Wheels fully locked

The car held absolutely fine, thankfully. The disks and pads are worn in, it's more that I don't use the car that often so they're still "quite new" so to speak.

A previous garage a while ago did mention that some of these old saabs do have different handbrake mechanisms at the wheel - not sure if mine does to be honest. Last I took it to the garage they just slackened the cables right off and reset it.

I did actually look up the price of 2 new harnesses and actually they're really cheap, along with a really good YouTube tutorial on how to replace them - it's absolutely within my capability. I may get the wheels off sometime and check mine matches up with what I've watched, and maybe just replace them both. At least though the car feels well held on the slip. In the meantime, I may fashion a couple chocks, just in case - I've seen people tie them to the hitch so they follow the car back up the slip lol

[Steve509926]

Good when it works out Jason.

Like that simple idea of tying the chocks to the hitch