Heavy load

[Rogue Wave]

I have a boat/trailer combination that weighs 5tons. Trailer is air braked. Does anybody hbow if it's UK legal to tow this behind a big (3 ton) pickup, Ford f250 or similar.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I have a boat/trailer combination that weighs 5tons. Trailer is air braked. Does anybody hbow if it's UK legal to tow this behind a big (3 ton) pickup, Ford f250 or similar.

As long as the total weight of the rig doesn't exceed 8250kg (you'll need a class 1 HGV or unrestricted C1E licence if it is) and it's within the limits of the pickup it should be legal.

What ya bought?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

As long as the total weight of the rig doesn't exceed 8250kg (you'll need a class 1 HGV or unrestricted C1E licence if it is) What ya bought?

Ya sure? What about CE (102) ?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I have a boat/trailer combination that weighs 5tons. Trailer is air braked. Does anybody hbow if it's UK legal to tow this behind a big (3 ton) pickup, Ford f250 or similar.

You got a Yank-Tank with air brakes?

[Jono]

"Subcategory C1+E allows vehicles to be combined with a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the combination does not exceed 12 tonnes MAM and the laden weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle."

So the intended combination of 5 tonne trailer/ 3 tonne truck falls outside C1E as well.

[Jono]

"All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM"

So if the pick-up is plated for 5 tonnes towing (with coupled brakes) and the Pick up is plated MAM 3 tonnes can you use your car licence?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Jono

"All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM"

So if the pick-up is plated for 5 tonnes towing (with coupled brakes) and the Pick up is plated MAM 3 tonnes can you use your car licence?

Yes-fairly sure of that as long as you have the C1E (restricted to 8250kg).You won't have the 8250kg restriction removed unless you do a C1E test or if you have a C+E .

[bedajim]

So how do the fifth wheel trailers work?

The caravan club Mag for October(I'm not a member) has a fifth wheel trailer unit at 3200kg with a Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM) of 4300kg and a load on the fifth wheel (hitch)of approx 500kg they towed this behind a Nissan Navara the unit had air brakes powered from the tow vehicle.
I can't imagine they were on the wrong side of pc plod

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Jono

"Subcategory C1+E allows vehicles to be combined with a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the combination does not exceed 12 tonnes MAM and the laden weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle."

So the intended combination of 5 tonne trailer/ 3 tonne truck falls outside C1E as well.

You're right- it's illegal unless the tow vehicles unladen weight is over 5 tonnes.

This confuses me somewhat as I suspect it means a lot of vans towing trailers are being driven illegally.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by bedajim

So how do the fifth wheel trailers work?

The caravan club Mag for October(I'm not a member) has a fifth wheel trailer unit at 3200kg with a Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass (MTPLM) of 4300kg and a load on the fifth wheel (hitch)of approx 500kg they towed this behind a Nissan Navara the unit had air brakes powered from the tow vehicle.
I can't imagine they were on the wrong side of pc plod

Maybe the driver has a C+E licence. as far as I'm aware it covers me for pretty much anything as long as the weights are legal.

[Nos4r2]

Straight copy of licence codes from Wiki:-

This is a list of the codes that might be found on a UK driving licence.
Licence Code Vehicle type Minimum Age Notes
A1 Motorcycle 17 Light motorcycles with a cubic capacity not exceeding 125cc and of a power output not exceeding 11kW (14.6 bhp).
A Motorcycle 17 Motorcycles up to 25kW (33 bhp) and a power to mass ratio not exceeding 0.16W/kg. Motorcycle combination with a power mass ratio not exceeding 0.16W/kg.
A Motorcycle 21[5] Any size motorcycle with or without a sidecar.
B1 3 or 4 wheeled light vehicles 17 Motor tricycles/quadricycles up to 550kg unladen.[6]
B Cars 17 [7]

* Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500 kg having not more than 8 passenger seats with a trailer up to 750 kg.
* Combinations of vehicles in Category B and a trailer, where MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500 kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.
Example: A vehicle with an unladen weight of 1.25 tonnes and a MAM of 2 tonnes coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 1.25 tonnes could be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement, as the MAM of the combination does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

B Minibuses 21 Vehicles with between 9 and 16 passenger seats not for hire or reward. MAM not exceeding 3.5T or 4.25T including specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers. No trailer of any size may be pulled. B licence must have been held for 2 years.
B (Automatic) Automatic Cars 17 As cars (B), but only those with automatic transmission.[8]
B+E Cars with trailers 17 Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B. The MAM of the trailer must not exceed the mass of the unladen towing vehicle[9]
C1 Medium sized vehicle 18 Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750 kg.
C1+E Medium sized vehicle with trailers 21 Combinations of vehicles where the towing vehicle is in subcategory C1 and its trailer has a MAM of over 750kg provided that the MAM of the combination thus formed does not exceed 12000 kg and MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.
C Large vehicles 21 Vehicles over 3500kg with a trailer up to 750kg.
C+E Large vehicles with trailers 21 Vehicles over 3500kg with a trailer over 750kg.
D1 Minibuses 21 Vehicles with between 9 and 16 passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. See also under B
D1+E Minibuses with trailers 21 Combinations of vehicles where the towing vehicle is in subcategory D1 and its trailer has a MAM of over 750 kg, provided that the MAM of the combination thus formed does not exceed 12000kg, and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.
D Buses 21 [10] Any bus with more than 8 passenger seats with a trailer up to 750 kg.
D+E Buses with trailers 21 Any bus with more than 8 passenger seats with a trailer over 750kg.
f Agricultural Tractors 16 [11] N/A
g Road rollers 21 [12] N/A
h Tracked vehicles 21 N/A
k Mowing machine or vehicle controlled by a pedestrian 16 N/A
l Electric vehicles 17 Category now deprecated - tests no longer available (since 2001) for this category. Vehicles now fit into category B1 or B.
n Vehicles used for very short distances on public roads N/A Category now deprecated - tests no longer available (since 2001) for this category. Vehicles now fit into category B1 or B.
p Motorcycles 16 Engine capacity must not exceed 50cc and the maximum design speed must not exceed 50km/h (31mph)

Notes: MAM = Maximum authorised mass


1. ^ UK driving licence info
2. ^ [1]
3. ^ BBC News | UK | Drivers face new photocard licence
4. ^ DVLA INF45/1 "Your new Driving Licence" May 2007
5. ^ Age 21 or 2 years from date of standard A test pass.
6. ^ Age 16 you may be issued a licence if you are in receipt of the higher rate of disability living allowance. However if the rate is withdrawn, the normal minimum age for driving a car (17 years) applies.
7. ^ At the age of 16 you can be issued a licence if you are in receipt of the higher rate of disability living allowance. However if the rate is withdrawn, the normal minimum age for driving a car (17 years) applies.
8. ^ At age 16 you may be issued a licence if you are in receipt of the higher rate of disability living allowance. However if the rate is withdrawn, the normal minimum age for driving a car (17 years) applies.
9. ^ If you passed your category B or B automatic test before 1 January 1997 your licence will already show C1, C1E (8.25 tonnes), D1, D1E (not for hire or reward) as entitlement flowing from the category B.
10. ^ Age 17 if member of armed forces; age 18 under certain other cirumstances
11. ^ Age 16 for tractors less than 2.45m wide. It must only pull trailers less than 2.45m wide with two wheels, or four close-coupled
12. ^ Age 17 for small road-rollers with metal or hard rollers. They must not be steam powered, weigh more than 11.69 tonnes or be made for carrying loads

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Maybe the driver has a C+E licence. as far as I'm aware it covers me for pretty much anything as long as the weights are legal.

No just called them normal car licence before 97 or whenever it was they changed the rules for the trailer test etc

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by bedajim

No just called them normal car licence before 97 or whenever it was they changed the rules for the trailer test etc

Hmmm.... I don't think that's legal but it'd take a clued up copper to know.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Hmmm.... it'd take a clued up copper to know.

I'm sure I'd find one of them 30 seccods after I put the rig on the road.

A friend has offered me his F250 with a Cummins V8 diesel and a fifth wheel coupling. I'm quite interested in it as I need to get the jet boat more mobile.
what I don't want to do is buy a fkk off big truck I don't have a use for........again

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I'm sure I'd find one of them 30 seccods after I put the rig on the road.

A friend has offered me his F250 with a Cummins V8 diesel and a fifth wheel coupling. I'm quite interested in it as I need to get the jet boat more mobile.
what I don't want to do is buy a fkk off big truck I don't have a use for........again

If you're using it commercially you'll need an operators licence and a tachograph fitted.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

If you're using it commercially you'll need an operators licence and a tachograph fitted.

plan b methinks!

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

and a tachograph fitted.

Whats the rule on that one again Nos ? isnt it only if you are using the vehicle for hire or reward, or you are carrying your own goods greater than 50 miles from your operating centre ? I cant remember ?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Whats the rule on that one again Nos ? isnt it only if you are using the vehicle for hire or reward, or you are carrying your own goods greater than 50 miles from your operating centre ? I cant remember ?

Link on this thread..post 12. Page 14-ish of the link


http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27046&page=2

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Yes-fairly sure of that as long as you have the C1E (restricted to 8250kg).You won't have the 8250kg restriction removed unless you do a C1E test or if you have a C+E .

the problem then may arisewith the fact that with a 5th wheel coupling it may class the vehicle as articulated or semi trailer and not a normal close coupled one ,so you may need a lgv licence even if its less than the permited weight ,

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

the problem then may arisewith the fact that with a 5th wheel coupling it may class the vehicle as articulated or semi trailer and not a normal close coupled one ,so you may need a lgv licence even if its less than the permited weight ,

i know im going off track here but its like recovery trucks dont need an m.o.t test or tacograph or keep to any driving hours if only used for recovering crashed vehicles from the accident to the recovery yard ,but if used to carry a vehicle from a garage to another place that is called vehicles transportation and it then has to have mot and taco fitted and flashing amber lights cannot be used on the move as its classed as a normal goods vehicle .