Led Trailer lights

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by F470

I installed a set of Westbar LED Tail Lights on my trailer.

Luck with those. I've used the Innovative and (some other brand that West Marine currently sells); they've all leaked at some point. The ones WM has now has all the interior electronics potted in some sort of epoxy, so they stand a better chance of working through the flooding.

I still wonder why no company will buck the trend, and actually engineer some lights that are robust, reliable, and actually waterproof. I'd build them myself if we didn't have the DOT requirements in the US.

jky

[F470]

My understanding is that the Wesbar lights are solid. So far I haven't had any problems submerging them.

[Nasher]

Did a bit more to my trailer lights yesterday afternoon.

Because the D3 has an issue with LED trailer lights I’ve had to build up some electronics to ‘fool’ the Canbus system.
Relays need to be used to isolate the indicators from the car until they are used, otherwise the low voltage test pulse constantly sent to test for a light board being plugged in is enough to illuminate the indicators like having the hazard lights on all the time. Old fashioned incandescent bulbs aren’t illuminated by the low power pulse so you don’t know it’s there.

The flip side of this is that the LEDs don’t have enough resistance for the system to ‘see’ them, so load resistors also have to be added before the relays so the car recognises a trailer is attached, illuminates the trailer indicators light on the dash, disables the rear parking sensors and alters the programming of the rear air suspension.

It all still needs to be actually final fitted to the trailer, but that can wait a couple of months now I know it all works OK.
I’ve also now taken the added precaution of Conformal coating the backs of the LED clusters and used extra sealant.

Image 1
The electrics box will be fitted to the upright of the winch post using a large Jubilee clip through a bracket on the back.

Image 2
I decided to play safe and mount the resisters outside the main box on a stainless plate, despite not believing they will get that hot as they are not used all the time. The plate will fit nicely under the upside-down ‘U’ section the winch is bolted to where the resistors will be protected and reasonably dry. Again I’ve gone OTT with sealant and Conformal coating despite the resistors being supposedly OK outside.
In this image I have a short lead connected up with a plug for the 7 pin plug just to test the system. When fitted to the trailer this will be a lot longer. The two cables entering the other end of the box will run up either sine of the trailer from the light clusters.

Image 3
With the lid off the box the connections can be seen.

Image 4
Then with the external cables removed

Image 5
The PCB I made using a small piece of Strip board with through hole relays and rectifier diodes soldered on.

Nasher

[Nasher]

This all connects up to my light clusters from earlier in this thread.

[SteveHall]

Have you made a spare? I fancy doing this as well at some point.

[Bigmuz7]

Doh .. I should have said I found a 'box' from Stanley Harris that does all this malarky for 30 notes ... just needs to be put in line for your trailer socket and needs its own +12 supply ... I'm told it works for all, but I was waiting to fit it before shouting about it

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Doh .. I should have said I found a 'box' from Stanley Harris that does all this malarky for 30 notes ... just needs to be put in line for your trailer socket and needs its own +12 supply ... I'm told it works for all, but I was waiting to fit it before shouting about it

Yep, saw those, not sure the Resistors are up to it for the D3, plus I didn't want to add the additional +12V supply, as the only neat/easy way to do it would be to use the supply in the other 7 pin plug that caravans use, or convert to a 13 pin plug.

Besides, apart from my time, which I enjoyed, the parts for mine came to @£10.

Nasher.

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by SteveHall

Have you made a spare? I fancy doing this as well at some point.

Sorry, only made 1 at this stage, and would want to test it for a while before making one for somebody else.

Nasher.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Nasher

not sure the Resistors are up to it for the D3,

Hmm.. have you seen one on a D3 and have inside info .. how do you mean fella ?

[Nasher]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

how do you mean fella ?

Sorry B7, I should clarify.

There appear to be 3 different types of 'box' available.

1. Bypass relays for £10 - £50
These work well for the D3 but need an extra +12V supply as you said, plus they don't appear to have the resistance to tell the D3 when the trailer board is plugged in, so you don't get the trailer indicator warning on the dash or the changes to the rear suspension and parking sensors.
You can fit them to the car of course which makes the extra feed easier.

2. Plug in resistors for again £10 - £50
Again these work, and make the car recognise the trailer, but the canbus test pulse will normally still illuminate the indicators as there is no isolation.
I say normally as they have worked on some D3s, usually later post 07 ones, but not early ones like my 55 plate.

You can combine both of these, but I really believe the additional +12v feed is a bad idea.

3. There is a box available that does both jobs, and as I'm sure you are on Disco3.co.uk you'll know Character uses one commercially with great success.
But this was completely out of by budget at £300.

Besides everything I'm sad enough to enjoy solving these things, building things, and learning something along the way.

Oh, and I'm a tight sod too.

It's just the way I am

Nasher

[Nasher]

Managed a couple of hours on this project over the weekend.

I want to source a length of 'Curly' 7 core cable to actually go between the winch post and the car, so that's next on the list.

Nasher

[nugent]

Originally Posted by Nasher

Managed a couple of hours on this project over the weekend.

I want to source a length of 'Curly' 7 core cable to actually go between the winch post and the car, so that's next on the list.

Nasher

Towsure sell it.

[9D280]

I recently changed the car - and am about to re- fit the tow electrcs, as my instructons ("Do NOT fit a bypass relay") were either ignored or the guy at the garage hasn't a chufin' clue. On the plus side he did listen when I said "NO scotchlocks"......


Bypass relay - does exactly what it says on the tin - bypasses the can bus. It hooks into the lighting wires like back in the day, but instead of the bit you hook in going straight to the socket & confusing the lighting module with extra bulbs & stuff, it goes to feed some incredibly high resistance, low current triggers in a box of electronic gubbinry (which fools the can bus into not noticing it, but detects when voltage is applied to the lamps).
The box of electronic gubbinry then essentially fires an electronic relay which is fed form an independant source to the lights (hence needing the +12V power) and switches the trailer lights by "remote control" form the car's lighting circuits.
Thje black box should also have the annoying buzzer (to tell you the trailer indicators are working) and the "car fog off" functionality built in.


All stricly legal WRT the lights, BUT........

- doesn't tell the ABS you have a trailer on the back
- doesn't tell any stability modules you have a trailer on the back
- minor issue but bl**dy annoyingly won't switch off rear park sensors when you have a trailer on the back....


And that is why you really should get a CAN talking one (if your car supports it) as I certainly don't want to get into a "non linear braking situation" and have a module confused midway through correcting a skid by a 3/4 ton shove from the rear.

I got a Westfalia CAN kit -(google "PF Jones") Entirely plug & play (no cutting or splicing wires). Some cars auto detect the new module, Ford unfortunately don't so once fitted I'll either need to take it to a dealer to activate the module or work out how to get ELMconfig to run reliably on my laptop...... More of that anon as I still need to remove half my boot trim to fit the kit and It keeps raining when I'm free!

[9D280]

Ok quick update.

Finally got 5 mins to update this after I got the can kit fitted. Thankfully not tested whether it talks to the ABS or not but does switch off the park sensors.

Also with bulb failure it tells me which one has gone in the entire cluster.

Bypass relay? No thanks.

[Nasher]

Good to see you've got your sorted

I've used mine quite a bit now and don't know how I ever put up with taking trailer boards on and off to dunk the trailer in the water.

My homemade box does of course turn off the rear parking sensors and adjust the stability control.
The Parking sensor bit is an added bonus with a boat trailer as of course having removed a normal trailer light board the parking sensors go off the second you put the car in reverse to go down the slip.

Nasher

[Pikey Dave]

When I got my super duper all singing new trailer with the built in LEDs, it came with a fancy module guaranteed to cure all Canbus issues on 99% of current vehicles. Obviously Landrovers make up the other 1% I still ended up soldering some resistors into the indicator circuits Works a treat now.
Fancy Canbus module = thick end of £300
2x 6.2ohm 21w resistors = £3.60 from RS

[jeffstevens763@g]

Just read this thread after buying a Led board, asked indispention if these were plug and go no reply just sent the board plugged it in yesterday Christmas tree lights similar to a bad earth problem took it apart see if there was a bad connection no all ok all the connections are soldered but not waterproof so leaving it on the trailer still coupled ,brakes would short out in water.reading this thread seems like it's a lottery if they work on your vehicle.(2010 Mitsubishi shogan )
One question I have if the car electronics struggle with the low current flow through the LEDs would a resistance in the negative /ground wire sort it as all lights return to ground and could that resistance be housed in the plug socket.

Cheers Jeff

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

........
One question I have if the car electronics struggle with the low current flow through the LEDs would a resistance in the negative /ground wire sort it as all lights return to ground and could that resistance be housed in the plug socket.

Cheers Jeff

Nope, the resistance needs to be in parallel with the various bulbs, not in series, putting it in series will make it worse. The Disco needs resistors in // with the indicator leds, dunno about the Shogun.


.....sh1t happens.......

[jeffstevens763@g]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Nope, the resistance needs to be in parallel with the various bulbs, not in series, putting it in series will make it worse. The Disco needs resistors in // with the indicator leds, dunno about the Shogun.


.....sh1t happens.......

So if in parallel and the LED blows no warning on the dash as its bridged by the resistor

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g

So if in parallel and the LED blows no warning on the dash as its bridged by the resistor

more or less. LEDs are far more robust & reliable than filament bulbs, so failures should be much less of an issue, that's the point in going "LED" in the first place. Until car manufacturers pull their fingers out & sort out the car side electrickery, we'll still have to resort to frigging & bodging. Ironically, it's the higher end marques that seem to have the biggest issues with LEDs.