Requirements for towing trailers in Great Britain - Page 4

camelgas · 08 March 2015, 10:55

Is the lights fixed to the trailer law retrospective ?, or just for new build trailers.

Nos4r2 · 08 March 2015, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

As devils advocate..........

It appears that the latest raft of EU legislation states the maximum trailer length is 7 meters. With the boat overhanging the trailer I understood we were exempt on the basis of "indivisible load"

Incorrect-it's an indivisible abnormal load and the 7m trailer limit doesn't apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

however as the trailer lights must now be attached to the trailer, not the boat,

This has always been the case

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Tango

then they become part of the trailer and I'm sure for many of us will result in a trailer over 7 meters ????

They don't count towards the length of the trailer as they aren't load bearing.

AFAIK, you're ok as long as the combination length is under 29 metres (think glider trailers) and it's an indivisble abnormal load. You might be in trouble if the plod pull you over and you're carrying multiple boats in line on one trailer with over 7m load bearing length as that's not then an indivisible load.

Also AFAIK, the trailer length is defined by the bed length-or load bearing area and I would argue that as being the distance from the bow snub to the rearmost roller-so you disregard the A-frame
My Rollercoaster under the Ballistic is longer than 7m including the A-frame

Nos4r2 · 08 March 2015, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgas

Is the lights fixed to the trailer law retrospective ?, or just for new build trailers.

It's not retrospective.

It's also not legislation that applies to anyone apart from the trailer manufacturer as it only applies to the type approval of the trailer at point of "registration" (I'd love to know how they're applying "registration" to unregistered trailers)

In other words, go out, buy your new trailer remove the crap lights that are bolted on and put a trailerboard on it if you want.

camelgas · 08 March 2015, 11:39

My kids small sailboat combi trailer use's a mast support that attaches to the rear of the dinghy, and carries the lighting board also. This seems to be the norm on small dinghy's of say 14' or shorter .

Is this set-up now be illegal ?.

Nos4r2 · 08 March 2015, 12:07

Theoretically it's always been illegal. Realistically, if it's safe, not miles up in the air and the lights are properly visible, nobody's going to bother you.

Realistically, if you go around driving like a knob with the dinghy on the back and get stopped AND the policeman has a clue,plus access to the construction and use regs you might get it added to charges.

camelgas · 08 March 2015, 14:19

Thats what I thought on reading your earlier reply, I have done thousands of miles towing this set-up with no problems with plod, yet !.

Even the new dinghy trailers supplied today still use the same system.

thanks for the reply.

ShinyShoe · 10 March 2015, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgas

Even the new dinghy trailers supplied today still use the same system.

Don't think they do:

But there has been discussion before if the lighting board attached to boat rather than trailer is legal and while the consensus seemed to be the lights are meant to be on the trailer not the load it was hard to argue a case that it was better for dinghy trailers so unlikely to attract attention unless you got a pedant who actually wanted to do you for something else but could not make that stick...

lukewhiting · 03 April 2015, 08:53

To add information I had the reply direct from the dvla.

If you hold a category B driving licence you can drive a vehicle of 3500kg and tow a trailer up to 750kg. In addition, you can also drive a vehicle and ANY size trailer provided the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) of vehicle and trailer is not more than 3500kg.

For example, a vehicle with a MAM of 1500kg coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 2000kg can be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is providing the vehicle is able to tow the weight and the combination does not exceed 3500kg.

Therefore providing the MAM weight of the car and boat is under 3500kg, then you will be able to drive this on a normal category B car licence.

I hope this answers your query.

............

I did also asked them what they define to be the trailer. How I read it the trailer does not include the load and the weight restrictions apply to the trailer alone. The boat is not the trailer it is the load.

They never answered me though...potential loop hole in the system?

Nos4r2 · 03 April 2015, 09:14

Erm... Maybe, maybe not. Your wording is confusing. Sorry to sound nit-picky but there's a potential confusion there, and DVLA have given you some wrong info as well.

There's no such thing as 'MAM weight', it's just ' Maximum Authorised Mass'. Maximum Authorised Mass for the trailer is the total permissable weight of the 'entity'-ie trailer AND load.

This explains it better-in fact it's the best explanation I've seen so far:-

Towing - Are you legal? - The Camping and Caravanning Club

Note the bit about "As long as the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen (aka kerbside) weight of the towing vehicle." DVLA need their arses severely chewing for giving out the wrong info. If you're towing a 2000kg trailer with a car with 1500kg MAM, the car's only going to weigh about a tonne. That's not even broadly definable as 'safe', it's bloody lethal.

Poly · 03 April 2015, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukewhiting

To add information I had the reply direct from the dvla.

If you hold a category B driving licence you can drive a vehicle of 3500kg and tow a trailer up to 750kg. In addition, you can also drive a vehicle and ANY size trailer provided the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) of vehicle and trailer is not more than 3500kg.

For example, a vehicle with a MAM of 1500kg coupled with a trailer with a MAM of 2000kg can be driven by the holder of a category B entitlement. This is providing the vehicle is able to tow the weight and the combination does not exceed 3500kg.

Therefore providing the MAM weight of the car and boat is under 3500kg, then you will be able to drive this on a normal category B car licence.

I hope this answers your query.

............

I did also asked them what they define to be the trailer. How I read it the trailer does not include the load and the weight restrictions apply to the trailer alone. The boat is not the trailer it is the load.

They never answered me though...potential loop hole in the system?

No, there are no loop holes, only ways for you to get your trailer impounded at the side of the road or an fine and points for driving without the right license. Try to argue the loophole you think is there at court and the CPS will charge costs more than taking the right test!

Xk59D · 03 April 2015, 12:05

I done my trailer test on Tuesday

I only done the 4 hour, which is the minimum I could find and it was £350 including the test. There was someone else though who had a 4 day course and was paying £1200.....sore one.

Anyone in Glasgow area I can put you in contact with them if you need the test.

Cheers

camelgas · 03 April 2015, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Don't think they do:

But there has been discussion before if the lighting board attached to boat rather than trailer is legal and while the consensus seemed to be the lights are meant to be on the trailer not the load it was hard to argue a case that it was better for dinghy trailers so unlikely to attract attention unless you got a pedant who actually wanted to do you for something else but could not make that stick...

Thats the first dinghy combi trailer I have seen that uses that arm system to hold a trailer board out..
The major draw back is that cradle to the trolley sits about half way down the hull, so the trailer board on the arms will end up stuck right under the boat, not in a good position IMHO.

Boats&Outboards · 03 April 2015, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukewhiting

I did also asked them what they define to be the trailer. How I read it the trailer does not include the load and the weight restrictions apply to the trailer alone. The boat is not the trailer it is the load.

They never answered me though...potential loop hole in the system?

No loophole. The weight is calculated on the plated rating capacity of the trailer, not the load on it any any one time. So if you have a trailer rated to 2.5t but are only carrying 500kgs, the calculated weight will still be on the 2.5t figure.

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale
07930 421007
www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk

ShinyShoe · 03 April 2015, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by camelgas

Thats the first dinghy combi trailer I have seen that uses that arm system to hold a trailer board out..
The major draw back is that cradle to the trolley sits about half way down the hull, so the trailer board on the arms will end up stuck right under the boat, not in a good position IMHO.

May be wrong but I think all they new ones are similar but the board is meant to be adjusted to the back I think. I also suspect 90% will be removed after the first faffy journey and replaced with traditional transom mount, especially if a mast mount is needed . . .

ShinyShoe · 03 April 2015, 18:36

Quote:

Note the bit about "As long as the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen (aka kerbside) weight of the towing vehicle." DVLA need their arses severely chewing for giving out the wrong info. If you're towing a 2000kg trailer with a car with 1500kg MAM, the car's only going to weigh about a tonne. That's not even broadly definable as 'safe', it's bloody lethal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukewhiting

This is providing the vehicle is able to tow the weight and the combination does not exceed 3500kg

I interpreted that to mean able to legally tow the combination, rather than physically able to move it...

Aningoul · 25 March 2017, 22:17

For much time I did not come to post on ribnet!

Remember, Friends, I live in south France, 3 miles from Mediterranean, and I am ready to help anybody that want to ask on Spanish Catalan, South France and Corsica coasts

You will be welcome

I wish also know if there are Maltese ribsailors on this ite!

Bye and good night!

fastasfox · 13 February 2021, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Don't worry, I'm sure that would be a valid defence in a court of law!

Honest mate if you think the cops are any more clued up than Joe public then your misguided. The only chance of a towing irregularity to be picked up is if the DVSA better known as VOSA by most .

Poly · 13 February 2021, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastasfox

Honest mate if you think the cops are any more clued up than Joe public then your misguided. The only chance of a towing irregularity to be picked up is if the DVSA better known as VOSA by most .

FYI the Cops are not the court - even in covid times...

fastasfox · 13 February 2021, 10:36

That's right....you often see magistrates at the side of the road pulling people.....even in covid times ��

John Kennett · 13 February 2021, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastasfox

Honest mate if you think the cops are any more clued up than Joe public then your misguided. The only chance of a towing irregularity to be picked up is if the DVSA better known as VOSA by most .

You’re unlikely to get pulled for it unless you’re towing something outrageous or outrageously.

There’s a reasonable chance of being picked up on it if you are towing illegally and get involved in an RTA though.

Your call.