Spot the deliberate mistake... - Page 2

DGR · 31 October 2012, 20:39

Interesting. I've taken the brakes off my trailer, as I got really fed up of them siezing every single time I went to move it (even when I washed them off as best as I could).

However, it is only used as a launching trailer/trolley, on a 4WD (in low) or a tractor, to go from the compound/winter storage to the slip, so never more than 10mph - but it IS on a public road (no other option). The yachts etc get trundled around on a lifting rig which isn't remotely road legal - so interested to know what people's views are!! The distance is only 100m each way - and probably only happens twice a year (with the RIB on it)

Conversely, if anyone ever steals it, I know exactly wherre it will be. In the field at the end of the estuary, wrapped around the car that was towing it.

So my next question: technically, would/could that be my fault, or not?

Leapy · 31 October 2012, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

question: technically, would/could that be my fault, or not?

Interesting question ... does stealing an unroadworthy and illegal trailer allow a thief any comeback if he nicks it, crashes it and hurts himself (or others)?

I'd say not "your fault" if it's kept on private land but could be more tricky if it's kept on a public road, which you say it is. Liability, as opposed to "fault" could be an issue though.

Could be completely wrong, though

DGR · 31 October 2012, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leapy

I'd say not "your fault" if it's kept on private land but could be more tricky if it's kept on a public road, which you say it is. Liability, as opposed to "fault" could be an issue though.

It's kept on private land - but has to traverse a public road to get to and from the slip. The trailer has no light bar etc, RIB not strapped down etc... but an interesting question if it was nicked...

colcreate · 31 October 2012, 21:59

I keep sketching out designs for stainless discs and fabricated calipers with ceramic pads..... One day I might just get round to making them.

HUMBER P4VWL · 31 October 2012, 22:25

Bit like when a thief falls through your roof and sues!

Andy B · 31 October 2012, 22:57

After all the talk about trailers and brakes over the past few week, and being in the position of selling a boat myself, I was pretty sure that I was safe with the trailer under the boat, it had had new bearings, brakes and I’d even replaced the hitch. The boat had had an outing and everything was fine in the world, Right up till the point that the buyer and his dads mate "THE MECHANIC" turned up to collect the boat! They had a 180 mile trip in front of them so after checking the boat over they turned their attention to the trailer. I had no problems letting them give it the once over and removing the wheels/drums as I knew everything was fine. Well it was until they got a mile down the road and "the mechanic" had over tightened the wheel bearings with the inevitable outcome!!! Well after throwing their money back at them (keeping their £200 deposit) and dragging the boat back to mine on the old bearings that luckily were still in the bottom of the garage bin. I replaced the bearings and the following weekend towed the boat over 100 miles myself and met the buyer half way. At which point I stuck the boat on the back of his van and told him not to touch anything until it was sat on his drive way.
So at what point did this all become my responsibility??? The only thing I could have done differently was put everything back together myself after they had inspected it but come on! There has to be a point where the buyer takes responsibility.

jyasaki · 01 November 2012, 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasher

Who needs a split pin when you have that much rust holding it on.

Nasher

Pretty much my first impression as well.

jky

BogMonster · 01 November 2012, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

Interesting. I've taken the brakes off my trailer, as I got really fed up of them siezing every single time I went to move it (even when I washed them off as best as I could).

However, it is only used as a launching trailer/trolley, on a 4WD (in low) or a tractor, to go from the compound/winter storage to the slip, so never more than 10mph - but it IS on a public road (no other option). The yachts etc get trundled around on a lifting rig which isn't remotely road legal - so interested to know what people's views are!! The distance is only 100m each way - and probably only happens twice a year (with the RIB on it)

My old trailer under the Humber was home-made by the first owner of the RIB. It never had any brakes. You wouldn't want to tow it behind a light vehicle, but behind a Land Rover or any other big 4x4 (not a pickup, as they've no weight on the back wheels) it was fine to tow as long as you drove with suitable forward planning. I guess the braking distance was 50% to double what it would be with fully functioning brakes.

While it was technically illegal, folks here have a more liberal attitude to what constitutes a roadworthy trailer, but then the traffic levels are a bit different! But in terms of pure vehicle handling, on quiet roads with a decent tow vehicle it's not a big scary bogey that will put you in a ditch unless you are either an incompetent driver or it's icy. I used to tow mine about 2-3 miles at up to about 30mph every time I launched. Never used any lights either, I just used to drive with engine braking (i.e. not using vehicle brakes) which meant that if somebody was dozy enough to run into the back of it they would have done so anyway, lights or not.

I certainly would never recommend it on busy roads though, but to be honest I'd not much fancy towing any boat trailer on UK roads though I guess you all do a lot of it

jyasaki · 02 November 2012, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

and the shoes had delaminated, wedging themselves between what was left of the shoe carriers and the drum face.

Had this happen once. The springs corroded to the point of failing, and the shoe wedged itself against the drum. Things got red hot, then the friction material or grease started burning.

A bit more exciting than I like (and luckily I had enough bottled water to cool things off to the point where spontaneous combustion stopped.)

Quote:

One day we'll catch up with the rest of the modern world when it comes to trailers.

Not sure you're really behind. Either that, or we on the left side of the Atlantic are, too.

jky

Peter_C · 02 November 2012, 18:30

Whoah! I have never seen mechanical trailer brakes before. They must not be legal in the USA or something. We either have hydraulic surge brakes, electric, or electric over hydraulic. Or maybe I have just worked on more high end trailers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colcreate

I keep sketching out designs for stainless discs and fabricated calipers with ceramic pads..... One day I might just get round to making them.

I am all for DIY, but why reinvent the wheel at a higher cost? There are tons of trailer brake manufacturers that do exactly that.

TIE DOWN 9.6" S.S. "G5" Trailer Disc Brake Assembly, 5-Lug #82091

Like Jyasaki, I had the drum brakes on my third boat start dragging and caused the whole wheel to start smoking. Pulled off the road and after a few minutes of cool down loosened the adjuster until the brakes were completely inactive. Never did figure out what was wrong, and didn't care as I upgraded to disk brakes. I towed long distances around the California hills and didn't ever want to see smoke from a hub/bearing/brake setup again. The next boat trailer was purchased with disk brakes from the get go. Since the bigger Nautiques are heavy, they always come with tandem axle trailers, so at least you can tie a wheel up if a failure occurs.

Drum brakes don't work well in reverse, but disks work so well it can stop you from backing uphill. Therefore the surge brakes use a solenoid for disks, along with a 5th wire on the trailer plug to cut them loose when in reverse. (Or you can put a pin in, but who wants to get out of the vehicle every time you want to back up?)

wavelength · 02 November 2012, 21:09

Hi Steve.

Quote:

folks here have a more liberal attitude to what constitutes a roadworthy trailer,

to be fair last time I saw 'em even the roads were unroadworthy outside of Stanley

Trailer Guy · 02 November 2012, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_C

Whoah! I have never seen mechanical trailer brakes before.

Drum brakes don't work well in reverse, but disks work so well it can stop you from backing uphill. Therefore the surge brakes use a solenoid for disks, along with a 5th wire on the trailer plug to cut them loose when in reverse. (Or you can put a pin in, but who wants to get out of the vehicle every time you want to back up?)

That's the problem Sir. Over here, the law states the trailer brakes have to be auto-reverse. i.e. you're not allowed to have ones that necessitate you having to get out and flick a lever, to stop them coming on when you're reversing.

The majority of braked trailers over here (likely 99%) have mechanical brakes. Very few run on hydraulic and even less on air.

I've some really good ideas for overcoming the obstacles, but to be able to be retro-fitted they need to be mechanical and utilise the existing trailer coupling.

I'd love to have access to the trailer equipment that's available in the states. We're a bit of a way behind in some respects.

BogMonster · 03 November 2012, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

Hi Steve.

to be fair last time I saw 'em even the roads were unroadworthy outside of Stanley

Nowt has changed

Trailer Guy · 03 November 2012, 17:59

Thought you may appreciate an updated photo! Before and after

Resurrected - many more years now left in her and a site more safe. Well done to the new owner for doing the right thing

PS. Any 'brown stuff' on there now is coppa-slip, not rust!

Trailer Guy · 04 November 2012, 16:57

Apparently the bearings had been renewed too.... no, honest guv...

Been a while since any brake shoes have seen these hub faces...

That's a bit better! Actual steel!...

jyasaki · 05 November 2012, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

Apparently the bearings had been renewed too.... no, honest guv...

They look fine to me. As long as it's a) not my trailer, and b) running on a different continent.

jky

jeepster · 15 November 2012, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trailer Guy

That's the problem Sir. Over here, the law states the trailer brakes have to be auto-reverse. i.e. you're not allowed to have ones that necessitate you having to get out and flick a lever, to stop them coming on when you're reversing.

The majority of braked trailers over here (likely 99%) have mechanical brakes. Very few run on hydraulic and even less on air..

I still have a UK made trailer with an old Bradley double lock hitch, that necessitates me having to get out and flip a locking lever over the drawtube to stop it brakling during reverse!
I recall reading somewhere that electro-hydraulic trailer brakes, widely used in the states, are illegal in the UK.
This is one of the main reasons why US made trailers dont exactly sell well over here, as well as their dimensions often being illegally too large.
Those that do manage to make the trip over to this side of the pond almost always have to modified in some fashion to make them road legal here.
That usually means replacing the US axle and hitch with UK/Euro legal versions, and occasionally reducing their dimensions so they meet UK trailer size regs.

Quote:

I've some really good ideas for overcoming the obstacles, but to be able to be retro-fitted they need to be mechanical and utilise the existing trailer coupling..

The easiest solution would be to lock the drawtube in position when reversing rather than trying to fabricate some complicated mechanism to allow the discs to unlock while reversing.
This can easily be achieved by using a hitch mounted solonoid powered by the reverse light circuit to automatically shoot a bolt out into a hole drilled in the drawtube to stop it sliding back during reversing, or to activate some simple lever mechansim that would do the same job.
The solonoid would only work when reverse is selected and it would automatically unlock when taken out of reverse.
Of course the exact implementation will need some carefull thought but I cant think of any reason why this would not meet existing UK trailer regs. If you can, let me know.
The Solonoid from an old starter motor would be a good choice and it should be very cheap and easy to obtain, then its just working out the best method to lock, and unlock the drawtube automatically as reliably as possible.

Quote:

I would love to have access to the trailer equipment that's available in the states. We're a bit of a way behind in some respects.

I dont. Apart from their braking mechanisms I think you will find that the yanks are actually years behind us, trailer design wise. Most of them still use bunks for petes sake!

Peter_C · 15 November 2012, 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepster

The easiest solution would be to lock the drawtube in position when reversing rather than trying to fabricate some complicated mechanism to allow the discs to unlock while reversing.
This can easily be achieved by using a hitch mounted solonoid powered by the reverse light circuit to automatically shoot a bolt out into a hole drilled in the drawtube to stop it sliding back during reversing, or to activate some simple lever mechansim that would do the same job.
The solonoid would only work when reverse is selected and it would automatically unlock when taken out of reverse.

Here in the USA we do exactly that using the reverse backup lights to control the solenoid that cuts the hydraulic disk brakes loose

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepster

I dont. Apart from their braking mechanisms I think you will find that the yanks are actually years behind us, trailer design wise. Most of them still use bunks for petes sake!

Depends on the boat. The RIB I used to ride on had rollers

jyasaki · 15 November 2012, 06:05

Jeepster; Roller trailers are not necessarily an advantage. Assuming you have a known slip (your term; we call it a ramp), and a decently designed one, bunk trailers work fine. You can drive (or pull) the boat onto the bunks, and it stays there long enough to get out and secure the boat in place. Pull the rig forward a couple of feet, and you've got capture. Boat is on the trailer and secure. No issues with the boat prematurely leaving the trailer as your backing down, either (unless you're really aggressive.)

As I said in another post, there's more than one way to skin a cat. (Let's see if I get slapped up for this one...)

jky