Stupid or....

Noble95 · 14 July 2015, 14:53

Is it me or is the law that you can't tow a trailer unless you are covered by the full max weight it can carry stupid, I can't even tow back our trailer that is rated to 1900 only weights 400 with nothing on, just a pain in the ar*e

A1an · 14 July 2015, 16:00

Correct.

I don't get the logic.

Superjetjim · 14 July 2015, 16:10

Yeah 'capability to tow' rather than actual I heard..

Poly · 14 July 2015, 16:43

On the same logic though, you might expect to be able to tow a 7.5 tonne truck with a modern car license if it is running empty as it will be less than 3.5 tonne limit. Or perhaps a minibus with 6 passengers because its really just a van. Or a motorbike so long as you keep the speed under 30 like a moped.

Pikey Dave · 14 July 2015, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poly

On the same logic though, you might expect to be able to tow a 7.5 tonne truck with a modern car license if it is running empty as it will be less than 3.5 tonne limit. Or perhaps a minibus with 6 passengers because its really just a van. Or a motorbike so long as you keep the speed under 30 like a moped.

And why not

An empty trailer weighing 400kg is arguably safer to tow than a full one at the limit of his license. But then again I've got a "grandad" license so it doesn't affect me😎

.....sh1t happens.......

Superjetjim · 14 July 2015, 17:44

Pure speculation on my part but I believe it's all down to what is easily enforceable.. Hence rating plate method

John Kennett · 14 July 2015, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble95

Is it me or is the law that you can't tow a trailer unless you are covered by the full max weight it can carry stupid, I can't even tow back our trailer that is rated to 1900 only weights 400 with nothing on, just a pain in the ar*e

Are you talking about driving licence requirements or GTW of the tow car?

For category B licence holders it is the trailer's MAM that is taken into account, but for the tow vehicle's GTW it is the actual weight.

Landlockedpirate · 14 July 2015, 20:46

Im pretty sure that this is all a bit of an urben legend.

Has anyone ever seen this from an official source i.e..gov ?

I have been stopped towing an empty 3500kg trailer with my wifes CR-V, no issues at all even though the max tow weight on the CR-V was 1600kg, however they were not very happy that I had my number plate on the trailer, not wifey's ..........

Noble95 · 14 July 2015, 21:03

Just the fact that I have a car that can two 2ton a gvw of 2800 and all I want to do is tow a trailer home that is rated to 1800 but unladen is only 400kg thus meaning it's only all in about 3200kg within in licence, but because it has the capacity to carry more I have to get someone else to do it, or get my mum who doesn't have a clue how to tow a trailer sit it and stick some L plates on which is ridiculous! Just find it crazy!

Noble95 · 14 July 2015, 21:04

Being a young driver VOSA/police would do me for whatever they could to prove a point so not worth risking it!

Superjetjim · 14 July 2015, 21:25

The police (and insurance for that matter) probably wouldnt give a hoot, until there's an RTA / fatality / insurance claim - you can bet your arse your friends would be slipping through your hands faster than sand

ShinyShoe · 14 July 2015, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landlockedpirate

Im pretty sure that this is all a bit of an urben legend.

Has anyone ever seen this from an official source i.e..gov ?

You mean like the relevant links from here:
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/towing-equipment

You could have it replated to 400kg and replate it back when it arrives...

Landlockedpirate · 14 July 2015, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

You mean like the relevant links from here:
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/towing-equipment

You could have it replated to 400kg and replate it back when it arrives...

Sorry, i think we are talking about different things.

A rumour surfaced a couple of years ago that your car must have the towing capacity for the trailer plate, regardless of what weight was actually on the trailer.

i.e. if you have a box trailer has a GVW of 3500kg and a capacity of 2800kg, your tow car must be able to tow 3500kg, even if the trailer is only carrying 1 feather pillow.

This is what I thought the OP was talking about.

ShinyShoe · 14 July 2015, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble95

I have a car that can two 2ton a gvw of 2800 and all I want to do is tow a trailer home that is rated to 1800 but unladen is only 400kg thus meaning it's only all in about 3200kg within in licence, but because it has the capacity to carry more I have to get someone else to do it, or get my mum who doesn't have a clue how to tow a trailer sit it and stick some L plates on which is ridiculous!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landlockedpirate

Sorry, i think we are talking about different things.

A rumour surfaced a couple of years ago that your car must have the towing capacity for the trailer plate, regardless of what weight was actually on the trailer.

i.e. if you have a box trailer has a GVW of 3500kg and a capacity of 2800kg, your tow car must be able to tow 3500kg, even if the trailer is only carrying 1 feather pillow.

This is what I thought the OP was talking about.

Actually I think he has both issues! He has a car with a MAM of 2000kg and GTW of 2800kg, and a trailer which has a MAM of 1200kg. For the purposes of the licence that is towable for most drivers as the combined mass is <3500kg. (https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/d...at-you-can-tow) BUT not towable with that vehicle because (https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/c...d-width-limits) based on the DfT Website GTW is the weight of the fully loaded car and fully loaded trailer. So he doesn't gain anything by having his Mom sat alongside him. He needs to change tow vehicle or down plate the trailer. I don't disagree that its crazy that its the plate that matters not the actual weight, but it is.

Dan Gurney · 15 July 2015, 00:33

My interpretation of that second link is the that the GTW is the laden weight of the combo, ie you can't just base it on the unladen weight of the car and trailer as per the hand book, then stick half a ton of concrete in the tow car.

Not saying my reading is the definitive one, my point is that link does not present clear guidance.

Bigmuz7 · 15 July 2015, 08:42

I had a customer whose commercial pick up could only tow 2.25 tonne. With a 1.5 tonne digger in a trailer weighing 750kg empty, this made 2.25 tonne. However the trailer was plated to 2.75 tonne gross.. meaning it 'could' carry a 2.0 tonne load. He came into the yard one day and said I would have to replate the trailer down to 2.25 tonne gross, as traffic had advised him. As far as the cops were concerned, he 'could' put more in the trailer than he was allowed to carry. Some what bemused I phoned Ifor Williams, who didnt even quibble the matter and just issued a lower gross weight plate, that I fitted to his trailer, and everyone was happy

Nos4r2 · 15 July 2015, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble95

Is it me or is the law that you can't tow a trailer unless you are covered by the full max weight it can carry stupid, I can't even tow back our trailer that is rated to 1900 only weights 400 with nothing on, just a pain in the ar*e

You're correct.

The problem you have is that while what you've posted is correct to the letter of the law as regards your licence, what will happen if you're stopped is largely down to the VOSA or traffic officer who stops you and they quite often don't have a clue on trailer/licence laws unless it's an HGV. (I once got fined for showing a white light to the rear from a fog lamp with no lens or bulb in it...)

Ignore those saying ' you should be able to' or whatever. Do it to the letter of the law-that way if you do get stopped and charged, you're standing in front of a magistrate saying 'I am legally allowed to do this' rather than 'I should be able to'. They aren't likely to be sympathetic.

1eyedjim · 15 July 2015, 11:46

i didnt realise it worked like that so glad i read this thread lol

ShinyShoe · 17 July 2015, 23:38

Anyone ever come across a manufacturer listing a lower than 750kg unbraked trailer weight limit but above 750kg braked? According to the specs of a car I just looked at the car weighs in at 1883kg, 1500kg towing capacity, 500kg unbraked?

Whats that about?

Whats the implications of that? Never seen anything that listed an unbraked limit other than some very small cars that don't allow braked over 750.

Poly · 18 July 2015, 00:03

Not uncommon, why do you find it odd that brakes on the trailer make it easier to stop?