Towing up steep hill / diff wind question

[cjj216]

Need some advice from any 4wd experts. I use an L200 to tow.

At my annual holiday destination I have an easy beach retrieve followed by a 20% Tarmac hill with no run up for momentum.

For the beach retrieve I select standard 4wd which I can use at any speed on any type of road. It's a shingle beach and not very steep so this works fine.

Problem comes on the hill that takes me from the beach to the main road. It's Tarmac, single track, and seriously steep. No cars seem to come down it until I'm halfway up it, and It's nearly always Ethel and Cyril who take 20 min to reverse back up!

Getting going again is a clutch burner.

My question is: being as it's fairly straight, can I safely select low ratio - diff lock? Will this help with my clutch slip? Could I end up trashing my diff as all of the wheels have good traction.

It's about 200yds long and i would stop at crest and go back to 2wd or standard 4wd.

I usually only use low ratio - diff lock in muddy fields or very soft sand.

[HughN]

I assume going to low ratio also puts in the diff lock?

(No doubt I will be flamed for saying so but) if it's fairly straight I wouldn't worry about damaging the diff lock - the tyres might scrub a bit if you do have to turn but they should be where things 'give'.

Low ratio will in any case give you more control (and the potential to push Cyril and Ethel back up the hill at the same time).

[biffer]

That's what the cars designed for, you're not running at speed or for a long way so it shouldn't do any harm whatsoever

[paddlers]

My Landrover Defender has low range no diff lock so that'd be my choice obviously and my Merc ML just has low range with some fancy electronics. I wouldn't be too worried about trashing your tyres or diff with that distance.
DO be aware of winding your diffs up where they won't disengage !!! All you need to do is reverse for a short distance usually and knock it into neutral which usually works for me. If you do go a longer distance in 4wd it will get expensive!! Occasionally putting a tyre onto the grass verge will allow a bit of slip if you're worried!

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by cjj216

Need some advice from any 4wd experts. I use an L200 to tow.

At my annual holiday destination I have an easy beach retrieve followed by a 20% Tarmac hill with no run up for momentum.

For the beach retrieve I select standard 4wd which I can use at any speed on any type of road. It's a shingle beach and not very steep so this works fine.

Problem comes on the hill that takes me from the beach to the main road. It's Tarmac, single track, and seriously steep. No cars seem to come down it until I'm halfway up it, and It's nearly always Ethel and Cyril who take 20 min to reverse back up!

Getting going again is a clutch burner.

My question is: being as it's fairly straight, can I safely select low ratio - diff lock? Will this help with my clutch slip? Could I end up trashing my diff as all of the wheels have good traction.

It's about 200yds long and i would stop at crest and go back to 2wd or standard 4wd.

I usually only use low ratio - diff lock in muddy fields or very soft sand.

If you have the option, just go low ratio, no diff lock. Diff lock won't give you any advantage on tarmac roads as long as it's not slippy. Diff lock will make it a bugger to steer around any corners unless there's some "slip" to be had.

[Chris Caton]

engaging low ratio will do far less harm than the clutch slip you're currently enjoying, if low ratio does automatically engage diff lock you have no choice, but it's still less likely to cause as much harm, so go for it

[cjj216]

Thanks for advice guys. Should have said - my low ratio automatically selects diff lock. Stand by Cyril and Ethel !!

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Diff lock will make it a bugger to steer around any corners unless there's some "slip" to be had.

It's only a centre diff lock though so won't make any difference to the steering.

[Chris Caton]

it'll be fine, just take it out as soon as it's safe to, if it's locked up a bit of reversing will free it off, damn site easier n cheaper than a new clutch

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by cjj216

Thanks for advice guys. Should have said - my low ratio automatically selects diff lock. Stand by Cyril and Ethel !!

Originally Posted by John Kennett

It's only a centre diff lock though so won't make any difference to the steering.

Ah! it's a no brainer then.

[Trimix]

Id also get someone to watch out for you at the top, then you will get a clear run up the hill and no need to use the clutch.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

It's only a centre diff lock though so won't make any difference to the steering.

Yes it does,if your on a hard surface you'll get transmission 'wind up' the first corner you come to, normally the open centre diff allows the front and rear axles to travel at different distances and speeds ( hence a 'differential' ) however as already pointed out a sort distance in low range is no issue, good luck!

[cjj216]

In the days before t'internet, there was nobody to go to for different opinions. So when I got my first 4x4 the guy who sold me it said "whatever you do, do not select diff lock on the road. I've stuck to that and have never needed low ratio on Tarmac. As you can see, this situation throws a few situations together. I don't have the option of low ratio no lock, and I'm on Tarmac. I'm looking at this hill and I can hear that fellas voice "told you not to select diff lock on Tarmac!"
I can also hear my clutch saying "listen to the guys on Ribnet - They know what's best!"
I'm gonna go with Ribnet. To be sure of things I may put one of those stingers the coppers use at the top of hill as an Ethel trap

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Lee argyle

Yes it does,if your on a hard surface you'll get transmission 'wind up' the first corner you come to, normally the open centre diff allows the front and rear axles to travel at different distances and speeds ( hence a 'differential' )

Yep, and it won't make any difference to the steering as the axle diffs remain open.

however as already pointed out a sort distance in low range is no issue, good luck!

Indeed.

[bedajim]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Yep, and it won't make any difference to the steering as the axle diffs remain open.



Indeed.

Don't think you're right on that one

The navara's don't have a center diff ( same as diff lock) so when you select 4x4 you can't go around corners or you'll wind up the transmission which normally costs big money to sort if you keep going and break it

I don't think its distance more the number of turns

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by cjj216

In the days before t'internet, there was nobody to go to for different opinions. So when I got my first 4x4 the guy who sold me it said "whatever you do, do not select diff lock on the road. I've stuck to that and have never needed low ratio on Tarmac. As you can see, this situation throws a few situations together. I don't have the option of low ratio no lock, and I'm on Tarmac. I'm looking at this hill and I can hear that fellas voice "told you not to select diff lock on Tarmac!"
I can also hear my clutch saying "listen to the guys on Ribnet - They know what's best!"
I'm gonna go with Ribnet. To be sure of things I may put one of those stingers the coppers use at the top of hill as an Ethel trap

n what makes you think the guy that sold you your first 4x4 knew anything about it, my experience of local landrover dealerships leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to the actual nitty gritty, they may well know hie to Bluetooth your mobile etc but how the real interesting stuff works, forget it! your 4x4 has a low ratio gearbox for a reason, so make use of it and reduce the wear n tear on the clutch n gearbox, running on Tarmac makes no odds it's still a steep hill n you're towing up, or down it for that matter! it's still excessive load when in high ratio, that's why some manufactures now offer the option of seamless change from low to high whilst towing, or 8 gears in high ratio auto boxes to reduce the strain when towing

the only thing I would add as a note of caution is that if you haven't used low box very often the sometimes they can stick going from high to low n back to high, so be patient with it, the more you use it the better it will get, my 90 will go from low to high at around 10mph without any indue grunching of the gears, does make life easier when towing, even more so if towing off road

[mick]

Originally Posted by Chris Caton

n what makes you think the guy that sold you your first 4x4 knew anything about it, my experience of local landrover dealerships leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to the actual nitty gritty, they may well know hie to Bluetooth your mobile etc but how the real interesting stuff works, forget it! your 4x4 has a low ratio gearbox for a reason, so make use of it and reduce the wear n tear on the clutch n gearbox, running on Tarmac makes no odds it's still a steep hill n you're towing up, or down it for that matter! it's still excessive load when in high ratio, that's why some manufactures now offer the option of seamless change from low to high whilst towing, or 8 gears in high ratio auto boxes to reduce the strain when towing



the only thing I would add as a note of caution is that if you haven't used low box very often the sometimes they can stick going from high to low n back to high, so be patient with it, the more you use it the better it will get, my 90 will go from low to high at around 10mph without any indue grunching of the gears, does make life easier when towing, even more so if towing off road

I use low box a lot with the 130 specially reversing
One place I go to I have to reverse down a 1 in 3 slope can't use brakes it just slides
Not used diff lock yet just plenty of right foot.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Yep, and it won't make any difference to the steering as the axle diffs remain open.



Indeed.

Wrong
The axle diffs allow there opposing wheels to turn at different speeds and distances (otherwise cornering would be interesting ) and ( this is the important bit ) the same applies for the front to back of the vehicle , the axles themselves also travel at different speeds and distance around corners , just look at your tyre tracks on a wet road, cornering they never truly follow each other hence a centre OPEN diff, otherwise you'd get transmission wind-up, poor handling, under steer, tyres scrubbing and ultimately damaged transmission - YES, locking the middle diff does affect steering.

[John Kennett]

I agree with all of that apart from the last bit

[Dhf]

Seeing as the front and rear axles have different ratio's,
locking them with the transfer diff will cause one axle trying to overtake the other axle,
usually the rear has highest ratio, and this can have an effect on the steering on solid ground,
I've experienced it myself, its not like you can't steer at all, but it feels like somethings gonna brake if you keep going.