Towing with Ford auto gearbox

[Jerry]

Has anyone towed (and launched/retrieved) with a Ford Powershift auto gearbox? The early versions of these gearboxes (2010) had a problem that you couldn't start going gently - and both hardware and software change was introduced.
Before I change my car - any opinions?

[beamishken]

Personally I prefer manual for towing. Yes auto is easier but the worst thing you'll do to a manual is burn the clutch out which is probably a sub £500 repair maybe more if it's a large or exotic car
Modern auto boxes are very complicated and are not (in my opinion) as robust as autos of years ago if you burst a modern autobox your looking well north of £2k to repair
They go wrong without towing so towing can only increase the load on them and increase the chance of failure.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Personally I prefer manual for towing.

The "problem" here is that more and more manufacturers are making only auto boxes with bigger engines, the manuals can't take the torque of bigger engines. 210BHP Ford diesel only comes with an auto gearbox (which is why I'm asking about Powershift), same with most other makes.

burn the clutch out which is probably a sub £500 repair maybe more if it's a large or exotic car

Don't even get me started, £900 ;-(

Modern auto boxes are very complicated and are not (in my opinion) as robust as autos of years ago if you burst a modern autobox your looking well north of £2k to repair
They go wrong without towing so towing can only increase the load on them and increase the chance of failure.

Yes, but there's less and less choice of manual boxes. Merc doesn't make manuals anymore. If I could only find well-priced 4Matic E350 ;-)

[Xk59D]

I had a pair of 210hp ford Mondeos and both were manuals, they were 2014 titanium x sports diesels exactly. Great looking but as reliable as a land rover at best.

My dad has had about 8 Ford's in last 8 years or so, including powershift. Towed his 1400kg caravan okay in a 130 kuga.

What model is it exactly as I probably have driven one or towed with it if a Mondeo or kuga.

A proper auto is magic for towing, i won't be going back. Finding a proper auto is difficult though as you say.

ask last tango about his Merc 4matic...£££££££££££

Just for balance, my last manual was due a clutch as it struggled with my boat on steep slips, was 1200 quid to get a clutch and flywheel done so I chopped it in.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

I had a pair of 210hp ford Mondeos and both were manuals, they were 2014 titanium x sports diesels exactly. Great looking but as reliable as a land rover at best.

My Mondeo went almost to the moon -165k miles. I only added fuel, oil, brakes and one clutch change. it's time to change it...

Towed his 1400kg caravan okay in a 130 kuga.

Wife's 163 Kuga (manual) is almost OK for towing. Could do with a bit more torque, especially when going to Europe.

What model is it exactly as I probably have driven one or towed with it if a Mondeo or kuga.

210hp Edge, so fairly new (and big ;-) ). Those only come with Powershift. A friend has a Powershift Mondeo and it's impossible to start driving gently - but I know there's been a change in the gearbox design.

A proper auto is magic for towing, i won't be going back. Finding a proper auto is difficult though as you say.

Hear, hear! In the good old days where there was no family to take care of the "disposable" part of income, I've had an E300 auto. I hardly noticed that I was towing a 2T boat+trailer, it was also brilliant on slipways due to old-fashioned torque converter. Part of the problem is that apart from an occasional rental car, I don't really have any experience with modern dual-clutch gearboxes, for the last 15 years I've only had manuals.

ask last tango about his Merc 4matic...£££££££££££

Will do some searches. I heard that ML likes garages...

Just for balance, my last manual was due a clutch as it struggled with my boat on steep slips, was 1200 quid to get a clutch and flywheel done so I chopped it in.

It will be injectors in mine. it's time to start looking, I want the chop on my terms.

[Xk59D]

funnily enough, i have a run about mondeo for work and it needs injectors (it is very common on ford diesels as you probably know) at nearly a grand it isn't getting them!. although PFjones sell refrub ones for about £120 each i think if you trade in your old ones. mines only has 111k on it but it is knackered to be fair, needs injectors, EGR, DMF is clicking too. if i didn't get it for chump change (2008 car) i wouldn't have bought it. vauxhall diesels are much better imo, had 7 vectras/insignias in a row, very little ever went wrong....anyways, i digress.

i agree with the kuga torque comment, my 210hp mondeos weren't much better. i've driven most diesels ford make in last 10 years, not been really impressed by any of them torque wise.

not driven the edge and my dad moved away from ford recently due to horrific depreciation on his kugas, he bought 5 of them in a row (2 mondeos and a focus before those) but he lost 13 grand in 28 months on his last titanium x sport kuga. they tried to get him into the edge but they were discounting them below kuga prices when they just came out so he figured not going there and bought an xtrail (1.6 dci is brilliant btw, i was amazed at torque it has). 13k depreciation in 28 months is nearly range rover PCP money!

have you considered the xc60? can get them with a proper auto and similar money to the edge.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Jerry

The "problem" here is that more and more manufacturers are making only auto boxes with bigger engines, the manuals can't take the torque of bigger engines. 210BHP Ford diesel only comes with an auto gearbox (which is why I'm asking about Powershift), same with most other makes.


Don't even get me started, £900 ;-(


Yes, but there's less and less choice of manual boxes. Merc doesn't make manuals anymore. If I could only find well-priced 4Matic E350 ;-)

You don't really need the 210bhp the 180 will be fine which can be manual
Let's face it a few years ago we all towed with a lot less bhp than 180
I guess it depends how long you will keep the car and how many miles you will do I'd rather budget for a clutch than an autobox
There also better on fuel so you save over the life of the car

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

have you considered the xc60? can get them with a proper auto and similar money to the edge.

I've been driven in the previous generatoin XC60 (2011, maybe 2012) and there wasn't a lot of space. Didn't compare to Mondeo on the inside. I like the internal space, it's super-handy when we're going for longer hols.
The new one with the touch screen instead of buttons - I could live with that ;-) but it would probably have to be XC90, so a bit expensive.

What do you mean by "proper auto"? Is that an old fashion box with torque converter, or a well-made and well-tuned sequential?

[Xk59D]

torque converter to me is proper auto, great for towing.

i don't know what the new xc60 has gearbox wise. the previous model has the same geartrain as my current bus.

i have an xc90 now as i need the internal space for my planes, these things don't fit in much so i hear your internal space concern. (why i had the mondeo estates before but juice wasn't worth the squeeze)

here is piccy of my medium size one, the big one JUST fits in the xc90 with rudder and nosecone off it. the cowl on the big one nearly hits the roof of the car.

i also have the urge for a new xc90, best looking thing on road IMO. in my case though be a waste of money, this 2012 xc90 has done 4000 miles in about 20 months as i only use it for towing mainly

[mick]

IMO you can’t beat a torque converter auto on a big diesel just make sure it’s got a good oil cooler and if it’s sealed for life oil get it changed around 70 K.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by mick

IMO you can’t beat a torque converter auto on a big diesel just make sure it’s got a good oil cooler and if it’s sealed for life oil get it changed around 70 K.

+1

I believe Audi's latest generation of autos have been that unreliable and unpopular that they are dropping it and going back to a "proper" auto with a torque converter again.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

+1

I believe Audi's latest generation of autos have been that unreliable and unpopular that they are dropping it and going back to a "proper" auto with a torque converter again.

Thanks!

That's exactly the information I'm looking for. It starts to become like doing a PhD on auto gearboxes, which is why I want to the car change on my timeline, and not on the timeline decided by failing injectors ;-)
I was looking at 3.0 Audi A6 as an option, but now you're getting me worried. Which gearbox is the problematic one - AFAIK there are two in 3.0 (tiptronic and s-tronic?).

[Phil M]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

+1

I believe Audi's latest generation of autos have been that unreliable and unpopular that they are dropping it and going back to a "proper" auto with a torque converter again.

The current autos on the larger Audis and VWs have a torque converter, and have had for at least 3 years. It's part of the very reliable 7 speed ZF gearbox, which is also used in various BMWs and possibly Mercs. It is a fantastic box (have it in our Amarok V6). The torque converter is left to do its thing in first and second (I think), then locked at higher gears to improve efficiency and act as if it were a direct shaft.

I'd have another any day.

Phil

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Phil M

. It's part of the very reliable 7 speed ZF gearbox, which is also used in various BMWs and possibly Mercs. It is a fantastic box (have it in our Amarok V6). The torque converter is left to do its thing in first and second (I think), then locked at higher gears to improve efficiency and act as if it were a direct shaft.

I'd have another any day.

Phil

If it's the same G7 speed that's fitted to the ML320 Merc, then having owned one, I can assure you it was anything but reliable. £1600 bill at 75k.

Re Audi autos, have a read...
https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/...0160616-gpkryu

[69cmw]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

If it's the same G7 speed that's fitted to the ML320 Merc, then having owned one, I can assure you it was anything but reliable. £1600 bill at 75k.

I thought Mercedes 7sp was their own, not a ZF box.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by 69cmw

I thought Mercedes 7sp was their own, not a ZF box.

Yeh.
Quick bit of research it looks like the G7 is Mercedes' own dog.

[mick]

I hired a Merc auto on holiday didn’t like it at all

[two stroke mick]

I had an old Merc e class 200 petrol w210 year 1999 for eight years it pulled anything that could be put on wheels. The joke at work was that the car was 2 inches longer went I got rid of it than when I bought it. I then purchased a year 2005 petrol 1.8 kompressor. It was a pos the emissions were all over the place. Seven mechanics later when they all failed to get the car to pass the nct I binned the car after spending a ball of money. I loved the Merc cars but I will never buy another unless it is a w 124. Any other than that burn the f**ker.
Tsm

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

I loved the Merc cars but I will never buy another unless it is a w 124. Any other than that burn the f**ker.

You're right with the W124. Many years ago I bought a W124 250D (funny 5 cylinder engine) with 200k km, sold it 4 years later to a taxi driver with 600kkm on the clock. The taxi driver was giving me free lifts every time he's seen me - the car never failed. It's been to the moon and back...
Nice thing in that car was an automatic diff lock (ASD diff) - as soon as the diff detected one wheel spinning, the clutch in the diff was locking both rear wheels together. None of that modern "let's use ABS for 4WD" rubbish. To be honest, for towing, slipways and for driving in snow, this was more than enough - no full 4WD needed.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Jerry

My Mondeo went almost to the moon -165k miles. I only added fuel, oil, brakes and one clutch change. it's time to change it...


Wife's 163 Kuga (manual) is almost OK for towing. Could do with a bit more torque, especially when going to Europe.


210hp Edge, so fairly new (and big ;-) ). Those only come with Powershift. A friend has a Powershift Mondeo and it's impossible to start driving gently - but I know there's been a change in the gearbox design.



Hear, hear! In the good old days where there was no family to take care of the "disposable" part of income, I've had an E300 auto. I hardly noticed that I was towing a 2T boat+trailer, it was also brilliant on slipways due to old-fashioned torque converter. Part of the problem is that apart from an occasional rental car, I don't really have any experience with modern dual-clutch gearboxes, for the last 15 years I've only had manuals.



Will do some searches. I heard that ML likes garages...


It will be injectors in mine. it's time to start looking, I want the chop on my terms.

Is that all? my trusty Focus 2.0l 6 speed manual had 196k on the clock when I sold it.... last I heard it had passed 218k.....

Current Mondeo ....time will tell!