Trailer Mounted Electric Winch for lowering trailer down slipway

[gpsguru]

Originally Posted by Starovich

Agreed, in addition, I had similar issues when retrieving a boat, the disco was stationary holding the empty trailer. As i winched the boat up, the whole lot started sliding - not rolling, ending up stopping when the boat and trailer went off the side of the slip and the weight was taken by the water again.

Tyres will maqke huge difference ......... probably if you are on std road tyres, changing to a quality All Terrain tyre will make the outfit more forgiving.

Also, on a slipery sloping surface when loading the trailer you should chock and least two of the wheels, perferrably all four.

The ultimate thing is that you remain safe and only do what you are comfortable and experieced with ......... if that means winching the trailer down, then that is what you need to do.

[gpsguru]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Recovering a boat is a whole different ball game to an off road event where there is usually a load of other mud pluggers just itching to to rev up their winches to drag out whoever gets stuck.
A little more concerning when your pride and joy is being consumed by the incoming tide
Any doubt an it's a long rope onto the hard stuff for me

Being properly trained also involves using laden 'donkey box' trailers in similar situations.

Yes, I am with on the the bravado of the engine revving, it makes me cringe ! ............ I use hydraulic winches with engine driven pumps that will create enough pressure at less than 1200 prm .........

[simonl]

Originally Posted by gpsguru

That is the preferred method and the method that is taught by Land Rover, BORDA and other off road driving organisations. A rolling stop produces very little interia and virtually no weigh shift (even a hint of brake is a totally different ball game) ........... I was LR trained and certificated in both the mid 80's (when the 90 was first released) and products right up to the early 2000's and I am also a BORDA instructor. When I used to teach a lot ........... when going down a 40% muddy slope I would tell the pupil that if they touched the brakes then I would kick thier leg from the pedals !

However, I need to qualify that without looking at the slipway in question its very difficult quantify from a distance !

During the winter months the slip we use gets very, very icy ........ I will often drop a 3T boat in using the same method with my JEEP.

Not doubting your skills off road, and I sort of teased you for an answer, but when merely winching a boat onto the trailer is enough to start a static 4WD sliding backwards, no amount of driver skill or knowledge can help... Especially when you're single handed, sliding back too, hanging onto a (detachable) winch handle.

[gpsguru]

Originally Posted by simonl

Not doubting your skills off road, and I sort of teased you for an answer, but when merely winching a boat onto the trailer is enough to start a static 4WD sliding backwards, no amount of driver skill or knowledge can help... Especially when you're single handed, sliding back too, hanging onto a (detachable) winch handle.

The wheels should be chocked ........... however, it is better with two people because to move away you just start the engine in low range first gear, however, you need smebody to pull the chocks away once you are moving ........ I certainly would not stop to do it .......... ocne the train weight is moving it stays moving ......

Like I said ........... any driver in this situation should do what thay are comfortable with ........... that is also part of off road training and comes under the heading of 'never get youself into a driving situation that you cant get out of' .......... bravado has no place in these situations !

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by gpsguru

Tyres will maqke huge difference ......... probably if you are on std road tyres, changing to a quality All Terrain tyre will make the outfit more forgiving.

Also, on a slipery sloping surface when loading the trailer you should chock and least two of the wheels, perferrably all four.

The ultimate thing is that you remain safe and only do what you are comfortable and experieced with ......... if that means winching the trailer down, then that is what you need to do.

I dont think tires would make any difference in this situation, chocks maybe but margin call. Can hardly find its too slippy, go to quick fit and get different tires then come back and get the boat. Its only happened to me once in 30+ years of boating, I only mentioned it to illustrate sometimes 4x4/ low/ diff lock/ tires makes no difference if the substrate is just too poor. Hence why even off roaders need a help from another vehicle on better ground sometimes.

[Last Tango]

Custom made "spiked" wheel chocks. ?

[Jerry]

The challenge is in finding a way to launch/recover solo - so there needs to be enough margin in grip/stability for funny eventualities (or the car will be hanging on the trailer and kept afloat by the boat!) - like when you start winching the boat onto the trailer and the whole setup starts to slide :-)

It is a very steep slip (haven't measured it, but more than 20 degrees). Another problem with recovery with roped trailer is that during winching the front of the trailer tends to lift - I need 1.5 persons standing on the hitch!

30m rope should be enough on the winch even for low tide. Maybe that's the way for launching solo - which I need as well!

[gpsguru]

If it is only 30 or 40m could you not sweep the wheel tracks with a wet yard broom ...........

Generally I am anti with regard to launch / recover using log ropes ........... over the years I have seen too many accidents, often nobody hurt, but I have seen plenty of boat damage.

[simonl]

Unhitching is not a good idea for solo launching. Keep everything hitched up & secure the front of the discovery via front mounted wireless controlled winch to uphill secure point. As long as you don't overheat it on the way *down* you're fine.

[Pikey Dave]

IMO, if launching was such a trauma, I'd be finding somewhere else.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

IMO, if launching was such a trauma, I'd be finding somewhere else.

He he, there isn't "else" which is as nice as this one within the same driving distance. There is river Deben, but the bar this year is bloody shallow - 0.1m depth at low water.

One can always spend £25 on assisted launch, or be there with another adult. The only problem is when going out single-handed. I was a bit apprehensive during first two launches, now it's not a problem with another adult, provided steel cable and a front wheel drive.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

IMO, if launching was such a trauma, I'd be finding somewhere else.

+1

[Orwell boy]

Ha ha ,now we are starting to go forward ........the slip is perfection for launch , its fine in summer ,but its well shielded by sheet piling so with low winter sun it never drys out , I have seen vehicles move on winding the boat on the trailer ,wide tyres on modern vehicles create less ground pressure , there is nowhere to tie the car off to as obviously there is loads of room at the top of the slip for manouvering ,,,,,,,,,, so as I have started the post for "which winch ,and battery and anybody done it before ,usable or not usable ,anybody tell me why its a cr*p idea ,bear in mind I don't want a winch on the front of my disco (I wont be growing a beard or getting a padded shirt either ) anyway the trailer is on the back of the disco not the front (lets add another time consuming function )
no I am fairly convinced winch on trailer is way to go , winch length can be overcome ,battery alongside wired direct appeals (I have got 11 pin for charging ) ,buid it on a tray so it can be whipped off if I am off to a shallower place or Scotland ,
how slow these winches are worries me a little , dyneema appeals more than wire ! , my lot weighs about a ton ,what size winch ? Winch will never go in water (well hopefully)
forgot to say there are pictures of this slip on gerrys post "Levington Marina for those that hav,nt seen

[Orwell boy]

Some of what I am trying to get help on is there seems a relationship between weight ...speed of retrieve , price ,,,,,,,,,,anybody shed light on this

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Some of what I am trying to get help on is there seems a relationship between weight ...speed of retrieve , price ,,,,,,,,,,anybody shed light on this

On the other hand if the total winch cost is over £500, then that's 20 assisted launches. How many assisted would you need per year?
I assumed I will need 5-6 assisted launches per year (when either alone or only with a kid), the rest would be with another adult.

I know... It's the freedom of being able to do it yourself - I also like it, which is why I'm watching this thread for a sensible towbar mounted winch.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Some of what I am trying to get help on is there seems a relationship between weight ...speed of retrieve , price ,,,,,,,,,,anybody shed light on this

Something like this then? This is what I have for winching the boat into the trailer. It's a 3000lb winch (approx 1.5t) it draws around 90A pulling my 1400kg boat onto the trailer & takes around 90seconds. In theory I could use a snatch block to reverse the rope & use it for what you are trying to do, so far so good. But, to use my boat as an example:- boat & trailer weigh 1900kg & I'm pulling it up a 20 degree slope. Assuming the bearings are in good order I need around 750kg of pull to get the boat up the slope. In theory, this would do it
http://www.electricwinchshop.co.uk/a...d/file_id/266/

At my kind of loads I'm looking at 100A and a line speed of 2.5m/minute. This means the 40m recovery is going to take around 15minutes@100A. So far so good[emoji106] Hang on! This size of winch only carries 13m of rope, this is similar for most winches of this size class. We need 40m, other wise we have to use snatch ropes & chock the trailer, pay out the winch rope & start again. So our 15 minute single pull now turns into a cycle of 4 pulls, 30mins? At some point in the proceedings the winch is going to start smoking, as electric winches aren't usually continuously rated ( my trailer winch is rated at 3 mins on, 20 mins cool down) So, to get a winch with 40m of rope (btw this is why Alan suggested a capstan) we are looking at.......a monster!! I could go on, but you get the idea, it's not as straight forward as bunging a winch on the front of the trailer & off you go. I haven't started on what size battery you're going to need to deliver 100+Amps over 20 minutes before the Voltage dies away. Or the weight that the outfit will be (150kg at a guess)
This is my setup, just to winch a 1400kg boat 5m onto a trailer

[simonl]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

Ha ha ,now we are starting to go forward ........the slip is perfection for launch , its fine in summer ,but its well shielded by sheet piling so with low winter sun it never drys out , I have seen vehicles move on winding the boat on the trailer ,wide tyres on modern vehicles create less ground pressure , there is nowhere to tie the car off to as obviously there is loads of room at the top of the slip for manouvering ,,,,,,,,,, so as I have started the post for "which winch ,and battery and anybody done it before ,usable or not usable ,anybody tell me why its a cr*p idea ,bear in mind I don't want a winch on the front of my disco (I wont be growing a beard or getting a padded shirt either ) anyway the trailer is on the back of the disco not the front (lets add another time consuming function )
no I am fairly convinced winch on trailer is way to go , winch length can be overcome ,battery alongside wired direct appeals (I have got 11 pin for charging ) ,buid it on a tray so it can be whipped off if I am off to a shallower place or Scotland ,
how slow these winches are worries me a little , dyneema appeals more than wire ! , my lot weighs about a ton ,what size winch ? Winch will never go in water (well hopefully)
forgot to say there are pictures of this slip on gerrys post "Levington Marina for those that hav,nt seen

I am said hillbilly, albeit with some technical skills.
Some considerations:-

1. At least the 1/4 ton on the front of the trailer might help to keep the nose on the ground when you winch the boat on.

2. Not sure how you cope with nose weight for towing legally

3. Dyneema is great, but risk of it melting on way down to launch

4. Assuming you have brakes I'd consider a breakaway cable on a separate line to the hand rail or similar in case of failure. Saves skidding down behind it using your testicles as brake pads.

5. Winch pull halves, or worse, as your spool fills up, increasing diameter

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by simonl

I am said hillbilly, albeit with some technical skills.

Some considerations:-



1. At least the 1/4 ton on the front of the trailer might help to keep the nose on the ground when you winch the boat on.



2. Not sure how you cope with nose weight for towing legally



3. Dyneema is great, but risk of it melting on way down to launch



4. Assuming you have brakes I'd consider a breakaway cable on a separate line to the hand rail or similar in case of failure. Saves skidding down behind it using your testicles as brake pads.



5. Winch pull halves, or worse, as your spool fills up, increasing diameter

^^^^^^^^^^^ wot he said+1
If you've never winched a boat onto a un-hitched trailer on a steep slip, give it a try, you'll need a step ladder to reach the winch. I've done it on a flat beach a couple of times & it's no fun.

[Orwell boy]

ok ,will go down later to get some measurements ,maybe I should consider parking the vehicle on the higher dry part of the slope which will cut the distance dramatically ,after all said and done its only the last 5 metres at low which is green and slimy and dangerous ,
particularly interested how you came to the answer 750kg of pull for your 1.5 ton load up a 20 degree slope ? PD
as I thought these things are so slow I would have a Que behind me ,something that always panicks me and that's when mistakes happen

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

particularly interested how you came to the answer 750kg of pull for your 1.5 ton load up a 20 degree slope ? PD

Fag packet calc, I used this but ignored the co-efficient of friction & then rounded up.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/in...es-d_1305.html