Trailer Trouble

DGR · 06 December 2004, 09:27

I'm getting very hacked off with my trailer.

We took the RIB out of the water on saturday afternoon - I was being really careful, slowly powering onto the trailer until we (gently) touched the rollers, throwing the painter to secure her, switching off the engine, hopping over the side, and winching on the rest of the way onto the trailer. I can't think of another way of doing it more carefully. But I STILL managed to damage the gel-coat!! AGAIN.

I've tried with the rollers 'floppy' so that they can move with the hull, stiff so they won't, and yesterday was somewhere in the middle, so they wouldn't flop around, but would still move with the hull shape. The problem seems to be the shape of the rollers, and the hull shape - there doesn't seem to be enough clearance between the two rollers and the middle 'axle' bit - and the chines catch each time (or the chines catch on the edge of the rollers, push the rollers over, and then sit on them end on - dinging the hull again). So far the damage seems to be confined to the outside edge of the chines.

It's got to the point where I'm tempted to do the rollers up as tight as I can, float her off the trailer (that's always been OK - so far) but then have to crane her out onto the trailer. Alternatively use a very steep slip and push the trailer in so far that I can float the boat on - and letting the RIB settle onto the trailer as we slowly pull her out.

Not happy. Any other suggestions?

D...

Simon Hawkins · 06 December 2004, 10:11

Is the trailer set up for the hull shape. May I suggest using a rope from the tow ball of the car, lower the trailer into the water then float the boat onto the trailer. I use to have a similar problem with an old trailer of mine with regards to the bar across the center of the trailer hitting the hull. I use plumbers insulating foam and taped this to the bar.

MeMe · 06 December 2004, 11:27

......the angle of the dangle to me. How steep is you're launch/recovery site ? A lesser incline may be the answer.

DGR · 06 December 2004, 15:31

MeMe – I think it’s the other way round. The slipway at the marina has a very gentle gradient. I already have to use a rope and wait for the tide to come in when we launch. It was easier on a steeper slip, like Jono's in Pwllheli. At least there only one roller turned over, and we could refloat the RIB while I turned it the right way.

I've been down to the RIB today, and I think I've seen what the problem is - see the attached pictures.

If you look at the picture of the damage, look at the flange on the inside edge of the roller. Then look at the picture looking along the roller bank - you can see how big the chine is at the back where it stops - further forward the vertical section is 2-3 times deeper (look at the front view). It looks to me that if the RIB is only 2 or 3 inches oneway or the other, and the vertical surface of the chine hits the inside of the roller - then the chine will run along the flange on the inside of the roller - which explains why the damage is confined to the chine edges.

Is this likely?

Dylan...

P.S. I was pondering this before I de-slimed the RIB - it's much cleaner now. I didn't fancy crawling around on the wet floor after I'd washed the hull off.

MeMe · 06 December 2004, 16:43

........it looks like you need to move the rear rollers (as viewed in the pic) out a touch. Ouch it's a nasy little graze you've picked up, right on the peak of the chine, that's a professional repair in my book ! Good luck. Oh and Dave Manning is a good one to seek trailer advice from.

DGR · 06 December 2004, 17:27

MeMe - yes, I suspect your right about the professional repair - there are a couple of other little bits of trailer inflicted scuffing they can look at while they are doing it!!

What annoys me is that I've only ever damaged the thing getting it onto the trailer, and that looks like it's because it's a crap (or ill thought out) roller system. And I don't think that there is any lateral adjustment for the rollers either.

It looks to me like the only options are to do the rollers up tight, and either (a) get bigger roller wheels (£?), or (b) get a grinder and take off the top of the flange (warranty? will they still work?).

Dylan...

codprawn · 06 December 2004, 18:11

Just a thought but MAYBE some bits of garden hose sliced lengthways would give some protection between the rollers? Slip them over and put some small countersunk self tappers through the sides to keep them in place.

Rogue Wave · 06 December 2004, 18:17

Whatever you do don't tie anything to the A frame!

I know what you mean with the trailer, we had this problem with the 7.8 Ribcraft i am involved with. we found an easy solution. We tied short lengths of bungee aroung the bottom rollers and then tied the other end to the chassis bed. This meant the rollers could move with the boat coming on to the trailer but not to much to flip over

You could move the rollers over laterally/laterlyarary/litoralyyre/lartatrolley sideways by getting a couple of mending plats (from B & Q) these are steel strips with holes drilled through them at regular intervals. By removing the roller arms you could bolt the mending plates on and shift the fulcrum of the roller arms along a bit.

chrisallse · 06 December 2004, 21:01

can't you get larger rollers (dia) looks as though its rubbing the wheel hub on the inside. if you could get larger rollers it should clear it. They look a bit small for the size of your boat. good luck.

Rogue Wave · 06 December 2004, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Just a thought but MAYBE some bits of garden hose sliced lengthways would give some protection between the rollers? Slip them over and put some small countersunk self tappers through the sides to keep them in place.

That's a good idea! seems a very easy fix to me!

DGR · 07 December 2004, 08:12

I don't think it's hitting the axle bit of the roller assembly, but the flange that holds the individual rollers on. The chine pushes down against the inner face of the roller, and ends up riding the flange.

I'm not sure what to do now. I think I've got three options...

(1) Bigger rollers to remove the 'flange' problem - but won't stop them flipping over. This might cure it if the problem is 'little rollers/big chines'.

(2) Bungying the rollers in the way that Rogue mentions - but the worry there is that if I use a steeper slipway, and the RIB floats over the rear set of rollers, they will have flipped over on their ends and the RIB will settle onto the ends of them (not good either).

(3) Do the roller bolts up as tightly as I can so they don't move at all, and put the trailer in deep enough that I can carefully float the RIB over the rollers - properly lined up - and let her settle on them properly as we pull the trailer clear of the water - although that seems to defeat the object of having rollers in the first place. The only way I can think of to keep her dead straight on approach is a couple of vertical posts attached to the back of the trailer set to the width of the RIB - as you winch her forward, they will keep her lined up properly (I've seen them used on some other trailers).

Rogue - any chance of some pictures of the Ribcraft 7.8 you work with on it's trailer? I'd like to see how that's set up as your problem may have been the same. Also, how deep is the back of the trailer when you recover your 7.8? Can you actually see the rollers when you recover? I worry about snagging the outdrive leg (the B2X doesn't lift very high) so I may be trying to recover in too much water, and missing the rear rollers altogether.

I've got no problem getting her repaired - but I don't want to have to do it every time I recover.

Rogue Wave · 07 December 2004, 09:00

I'll get some photies in the next couple of days more likely after the wekend.

I immerse the trailers when I recover so that the back rollers are under water, there was a guy on the forums who reckons you could recover any boat without getting the axles immersed, ( he might be worth talking to cos i can't do it .)

the bungees stop exactly the problem you fear in your reply number two.

The Ribcraft that I work wit has the advantage of an electric winch on the trailer, which is great until the battery goes flat!

Pete7 · 07 December 2004, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

there was a guy on the forums who reckons you could recover any boat without getting the axles immersed, ( he might be worth talking to cos i can't do it .)

Me neither, although I would welcome a demonstration

Pete

Richard B · 07 December 2004, 10:49

http://www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk/up-up-and_away.htm

Jono · 07 December 2004, 11:05

Have done a quick bit of research on “trailer launching” of boats and have come up with some interesting conclusions.
Firstly, I can’t find anyone who says “any boat” can be launched off “any trailer” in “any conditions” with out submerging the trailer. I know that my boat can be launched and recovered from my (Bramber single axle) trailer without submerging the axle on a reasonably steep slip. I know that it is much harder, physically, than submerging the trailer further and just driving it on. In fact I can load and unload my boat off its trailer without going anywhere near water! Whilst this ensures that my bearings are good to go, it wouldn’t half mean a lot of hanging around, waiting for the tide.

However a friend of mine with the 23’ “fast fisher” rig shown here, regularly beaches his boat, waits for the tide to go and the tourists to leave the beach before he recovers his boat.
Second conclusion is that those of us who submit to Park’n Launch schemes fair the worst. It’s a speed thing. The Ol’ tractor driver wants an easy life and gets you in and out as quickly as he can with the least effort involved. Does he care what it does to your bearings?

I spent a good five minutes berating a poor hapless tractor driver who thought he was helping by completely submerging the trailer of a boat I was trying to recover. Eventually he drew the trailer out of the water and we recovered easily.
Third conclusion is that you need the right tow vehicle for the conditions you are facing. The illustration I have put here is a little extreme… but it amused me… and I think my tow vehicle is macho…

Fourth conclusion is that Divers seem to do it best. Of all the illustrations I found of boats being recovered with trailer axles out of the water, most were dive clubs. Now, as I am well aware, divers are a bunch of idle so-and-so’s so there must be an overriding reason for them doing it this way. I have come to the conclusion that they are “meaner” than they are “lazy” and wheel bearings cost money...

Finally, if you think launching a RIB could be difficult, spare a thought for the guy who launches his 30’ long fin keeled yacht down a slipway….

Oh...and don't forget to lash the bugger down properly...

codprawn · 07 December 2004, 12:46

Seeing all the trouble people seem to have with rollers maybe bunks are the answer???

Mate of mine has a home made trailer he uses for boat deliveries etc - it looks horrible but works really well with no damage to the hull - it uses a grooved piece of wood coated in grease along the keel with bunks either side - simple and very effective!!!

The steeper the slip the better as well though.

Nick Hearne · 07 December 2004, 13:22

Stuart, one of these days I will come down & you can prove me wrong that I can not get my boat off the trailer with out getting the bearings wet!
But so far I have managed to keep them dry! As I have said B4 I use the public hard at the Hamble quite a lot, (which I would consider pretty flat) & not got the bearings wet!
But then my boat dose have a plaining wedge so this gives it a head start on some.
Work for me & I hate the idea of getting my bearings wet.
Nick

Scary Des · 07 December 2004, 13:31

To start with I had no end of problems with my trailer,

I think that the main issue was that the consequences of additional weight is exponential, or to put it another way the effective difference between a 1 ton boat and a two ton boat seems to be more than one ton. Yes I know it is one ton but the effect seems considerable more, things like rollers and winches are operating at full capacity so friction goes up etc.

I resolved my problems (with Arthur deGraafs help) by adding more rollers and moving there position.

I moved the rollers into the middle so that the boat virtually sits on them as opposed to between them, it work well for my boat because as it starts to go onto the trailer the keel runs happily up the slot which lines everything up. I think that because the rollers are effectively lifting the boat there is less tangential force which is wasted. I get stability with the front rollers which are wider spaced.

My rollers are set so that if you grab hold of one roller and lift while pushing down on the other hard, you can just move it. If I watch the boat going on this will also move the rollers any looser and you can hit the side of the roller.
Des

Pete7 · 07 December 2004, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

http://www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk/up-up-and_away.htm

You must be joking, yes for a small light rib, but for Blue Ice or Old Spice? I think not. Anyway when did you last use a slipway?

Nick, its not the back of the boat I worry about, its the deep v nose as it rolls off the trailer into 6" inches of water and crunches on the concrete slipway.

Pete

Nick Hearne · 07 December 2004, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Nick, its not the back of the boat I worry about, its the deep v nose as it rolls off the trailer into 6" inches of water and crunches on the concrete slipway.
Pete

Not done that to date,but have scraped the bottom of the transom at The Hamble then I was a bit ambitious!
Nick